Proposal talk:Stable

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Stable for other types of animals

I find it wrong to place cows, pigs, goats, sheep, dogs, etc in a stable. For me a stable is a place to keep horses, the places to keep the other animals have other names, for example dogs will be kept in a kennel (as I am not a native english speaker I cannot come up with all the correct terms). IMO building=farm_auxiliary with additional tags is a better solution, besides, from my childhood I remember our neighbours had the various places in the same house, so the house=farm_auxiliary would have a stable section, a kennel section, a coop section, etc. --Skippern 17:35, 12 September 2012 (BST)

You are right: "stable" only refers to horses. The key farm_auxiliary is IMO 1) not intuitive and 2) people might use this only in relation with farms. I'll contact some native speakers and try to find some umbrella term that covers stables, pigsties and cowsheds. If there exists none in the english language then I'll change the proposal back to refer only to horses. --Imagic 08:29, 13 September 2012 (BST)

Removed reference to other animals. This should be used solely for horses. --Imagic 11:42, 13 September 2012 (BST)

A more generic tag like amenity=animal_shelter

I don’t think stable is a good tagging for all animal shelters, as you and other people say, stable is for horses.
In addition the proposal was to add a tag stable to a building or a part of it. But a kennel for example is a wider area that includes buildings, courtyards and meadows.
We can add a general tag to the whole area and then within it you can add building=yes, landuse=grass and so on.
I think that the key amenity should be used, and do not introduce a new key.
What do you think about tagging the area with amenity=animal_shelter with dog=yes or cat=yes or wild_animals=yes and so on?
In this case a tag for each animal species accepted should be added, because in the same structure you can host dogs and cats or different wild animal species. So for example you cannot set at the same time stable=dog and stable=cat. In this way we could use amenity=animal_shelter also for animal recovery centers held by WWF or any other associations. You can also add a tag operator=*.
Any suggestion from native speakers is welcome. --Viking81 11:39, 13 September 2012 (BST)

Because of the major differences between shelters for different animals I removed the reference to other animals from this proposal. It should be used solely for horse. Though I would prefer a unique key for different animal "shelters" I doubt that we can establish one. We could define something like amenity=animal_shelter and horse=yes for a stable but - at least to me - this is not very intuitive and I suspect that this would not be accepted by a wide community. --Imagic 11:51, 13 September 2012 (BST)

The new proposal amenity=animal_shelter is under discussion. If we develop a good definition widely accepted and if it will be integrated in map editors, the intuitivity problem will be solved. --Viking81 14:20, 16 September 2012 (BST)

I added a link to the animal shelter proposal. However when I read the description of it I'm even less convinced that it would fit in this case. How would you tag a stable? --Imagic 15:31, 16 September 2012 (BST)

In the current rewritten proposal of animal_shelter/animal_boarding, a stable can be tagged as amenity=animal_shelter if it is a shelter to recover horses (for example end-carreer racing horses) and as amenity=animal_boarding if it offers boarding for owned horses. You can anyway use building=stable within the animal_shelter or animal_boarding perimeter (that can comprehend courtyards, meadows...) to tag the building itself.
Instead building=stable could be used alone to tag private stables or all other stables that aren't included in animal_shelter/animal_boarding.
Do you agree? --Viking81 19:12, 1 October 2012 (BST)

Proposal

This proposal is for stables themselves - not any facility. I want to tag the building itself as a stable, no matter if it is part of any facility - like an animal shelter - or not. So even if the stable is part of e.g. an animal shelter, I want to tag the animal shelter and the stable. --Imagic 07:34, 2 October 2012 (BST)

Yes, I got it. They are two different entities, stable is for the building and animal_shelter is for the whole facility if it fits. I agree with you. --Viking81 08:09, 2 October 2012 (BST)

Stable = for all animals or for horses only?

When looking for a more generic word from german-english dictionnaries I ended up with stable. When I looked for definitions for stable and in different dictionaries ([1], [2], [3], [4], I found almost the same definitions:

a. A building for the shelter and feeding of domestic animals, especially horses and cattle/other livestock.

b. A group of animals lodged in such a building.

c. All the racehorses belonging to a single owner or racing establishment.

d. A group, as of athletes or entertainers, under common management.

Coming from the german word I would not have any problems using stable for horses, cows, pigs, goats, sheep but I would not use it for cats or dogs.

I could only identify one contributor to this proposal and its discussion as an english native speaker: User:Ceyockey who contributed in early beginning of the proposal in 2009 that means before the discussion whether stable is for horses only or for other animals as well.

I agree that according to what is behind the proposals for animal_shelter and animal_boarding both do not fit for our purpose.

The animal-page is not helpful either but we should probably take into consideration Riding:"stable" and "riding facilities?/amenities?" (german) which uses:

Objekt	Tag	Anwendung	Kommentar
Reiterhof, Reitanlage equestrian farm, riding facility	sport=equestrian		Stall und/oder Einrichtungen für den Pferdesport. stable and/or facilities? for the riding sport
Pferdestall horse stable	building=yes + building:type=cot + building:use=equestrian		Pferdestall als Gebäude Proposal horse stable as building

Here the "cot" in building:type=cot would be the generic word for "stable for all animals" - I am not happy with this as the dictionnaries ([5], [6], [7], [8] have mostly other main meanings for that word. Among many other meanings I find "a small shelter, esp one for pigeons, sheep, etc.". This also indicates that it is not the best word for a generic meaning.

So why not using builing=stable as generic description and stable=* for telling what kind of animals are in. If more than one species is kept in the facility list them all as semi-colon-separated list. I don't have experience with this including more than one but I suppose this works as it is already used in Tag:amenity=animal_boarding (Animal species accepted).

--Rennhenn 09:25, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Main-Page-Proposal: for all Animals!

My first idea after reading the proposal and the discussion was to propose amending the proposal-page in order to discuss two proposals on that page according to the example for animal_shelter/animal_boarding. (I am entering to this discussion looking for a tag for a "stable" or similar in order to tag a henhouse (as a building - not as a facility like a henfarm).)

This proposal aims to tag various buildings for the shelter and feeding of domestic animals. The first idea of a to use "stable". It then was discussed that "stable" might be wrong to place cows, pigs, goats, sheep, dogs but that a stable would be a place to keep horses.

We decided to divide these facilities in two families:

    buildings for the shelter and feeding of horses (stable)
    buildings for the shelter and feeding of other domestic animals (to be defined)

When looking for a more generic word from german-english dictionnaries I ended up with stable. (see ...)

At any rate whether stable will be used for all buildings for the shelter and feeding or only for them for horses the proposal page should cover all animals in order to have a comprehensive discussion and solution.

--Rennhenn 09:25, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

The english word stable refers - according to native speakers - only to shelters for horses (german: Pferdestall). Please see the section disambiguation of the related article for recommended tags for other animals. I also preferred a tag that covers all animals - just like e.g. the proposal for areas where animals are kept - but stable is just the wrong word for it. --Imagic 09:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

please avoid *=yes tags

If stable=yes stands for the physical characteristics of an object, building=stable is sufficient, while if it stands for its use to shelter horses, I would prefer amenity=<something>, possibly in conjunction with <something>:for=horse (analogous to social_facility:for=*) or horse=designated. --Fkv 21:52, 24 September 2012 (BST)

That's perfectly fine with me but what tag should be used if only a part of a building is a stable? In that case building=stable is inappropriate. --Imagic 22:37, 24 September 2012 (BST)

amenity=animal_[shelter|boarding|housing|...]. See the other proposal. --Fkv 07:38, 25 September 2012 (BST)

You completely miss the point: I want to tag the stable, not a facility which might or might not have a stable. --Imagic 08:35, 25 September 2012 (BST)

I didn't miss that. The amenity=... tag is to be set on the stable only, not on the whole building, of course. If there's a housing unit and a stable within the same building, map the building as an area and the stable as a node or subarea, with building=yes on the building and amenity=... on the stable. --Fkv 22:04, 25 September 2012 (BST)