Edinburgh/CityCentreRoads
This is a page to discuss/clarify the tagging of roads in the city centre area. Comments on this page can be archived to the discussion page once a consensus is agreed
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Guidance
The Highway page states that "The highway type helps indicate the importance of the highway within the road network as a whole", but it is not clear whether OSM tagging should strictly follow official classification. See also United_Kingdom_Tagging_Guidelines,
List of Key Roads
| Street | Official Classification | OSM Classification | Access | Comments |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Princes Street | No longer part of A8 Sabre | currently Unclassified | foot, trams, buses, taxis, cycles only (except sections between Lothian Rd & S Charlotte St and South St David Street & North Bridge) | Major road, should show up as such --Drnoble (talk) 11:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC), Disagree declassification is correct, But access=no should be removed and motor_vehicles=no put back in place. --Chris (talk) 22:19, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Not convinced mode of transport is relevant to the highway classification. This is still a very important route - unclassified does not give that impression. Reclassification to tertiary seems reasonable to me as matches other essential traffic route through centre (Queen St). --sairfeet (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC) Re the classification, it's tricky, but I would go with primary; despite the fact cars, etc have no access it still remains a major thoroughfare used by vehicular transport (buses, taxis, trams, cycles). As for the ref=A8 I think we should be wary of using SABRE as the basis for a decision as it is not an official body. The official reference would come from Transport Scotland, a quick email to them might help. Other than that the official body for mapping is OS, they currently still have Princes St marked as A8 (well online anyway). Think access=no should be used as this is the default position for the majority of transport types, the allowed types should then be listed specifically as per the key:access page --TheBaron (talk) 14:27, 18 July 2014 (UTC) Think most possible views have now been expressed. Confirms to me that OSM doesn't yet have an agreed classification for tagging busy traffic routes that are restricted to buses etc. While I can't see how this road fits an unclassified definition, the view expressed by Chris below makes a lot of sense i.e. the rendering of roads is probably of most use to private motorists for routing. For that reason, perhaps we live with highway=unclassified until the OSM community can come up with a better way to tag & render this type of route. --sairfeet (talk) 20:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC) |
| Shandwick Place | No longer part of A8 Sabre | currently Unclassified | foot, trams, buses, taxis, cycles only | Major road, should show up as such --Drnoble (talk) 11:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC) |
| Atholl Place | No longer part of A8 Sabre | currently Unclassified | no restrictions | should be tagged in accordance with roads either end --Drnoble (talk) 11:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC) |
| West Maitland Street | No longer part of A8 Sabre | currently primary/unclassified | foot, tram, local buses only (westbound), no restrictions (eastbound) | confusing to have different classifications in each direction --Drnoble (talk) 11:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Agree - there is also no physical division between the two directions so the original way tagged with busway=opposite_lane seems more appropriate.--sairfeet (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC) |
| Charlotte Square | south side part of A90 Sabre | currently primary/tertiary | no restrictions | should tag south side as ref=A90 as far as Princes St - or downgrade to 'tertiary' as 'primary' may suggest that the route via Hope Street is a major route open to all traffic - when in practice private vehicles can only go one-way. Tag as unclassified for west & north sections. --sairfeet (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC) |
| Hope Street | part of A90 Sabre | currently primary | partly oneway except buses | should tag as ref=A90 - or downgrade to tertiary (see comment for Charlotte Sq above) --sairfeet (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
As part of this route is one-way for private vehicles, it doesn't make much sense to leave this as primary. Demote to tertiary.--sairfeet (talk) 20:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC) |
| George Street | currently tertiary | one side being made into bike lane | should this be demoted to unclassified, or stay tertiary? --Drnoble (talk) 11:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Agree - demote as not a key traffic route. In my view, most of the connecting routes (e.g. Nth Charlotte Street, Hanover Street) can't be demoted as still essential for traffic flow between Princes St & Queen St --sairfeet (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC) Don't agree with mapping the north side as a cycleway. It's not purely a cycleway and vehicles (and pedestrians) still have access to the street. Feel marking it as only a cycleway is misleading. --TheBaron (talk) 15:23, 20 July 2014 (UTC) | |
| St Andrew Square | currently tertiary | no restrictions? | should the north/east/south sections be demoted to unclassified ?--sairfeet (talk) 17:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
These roads are only required for access to local properties - not for traffic flow - so demote to unclassified.--sairfeet (talk) 20:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC) | |
| Chester Street & Drumsheugh Gardens | currently unclassified | no restrictions | should these 2 streets be promoted to tertiary as key route connecting Palmerston Place (incl the end of A8) and Queensferry Road (A90) ?--sairfeet (talk) 17:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes - already a well-used corridor for moving traffic between these other tertiary routes.--sairfeet (talk) 20:04, 4 August 2014 (UTC) | |
| Magdala Crescent & Douglas Crescent | currently tertiary | no restrictions | should these 2 (almost city centre) streets be demoted to residential as they are just leafy not very wide residential streets. Looks like they were only promoted to tertiary during the tram works as they were part of the diversion route.--sairfeet (talk) 09:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC) | |
| Castle Street (south of Rose St) | currently unclassified | foot, limited goods vehicle access (pedestrian zone) | should this street be demoted to highway=pedestrian.--sairfeet (talk) 17:35, 14 July 2014 (UTC) |
Other Comments
Should Princess Street etc. be tagged with access=no? I think it should be motor_vehicle=no as it is a main street for pedestrians, and the map shouldn't be just/primarily tagged for cars/drivers --Drnoble (talk) 11:35, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Not sure I understand the difference between access=no;bus=designated;taxi=designated;bicycle=designated;foot=yes and access=yes (implied);bus=designated;taxi=designated;bicycle=designated;motor_vehicle=no. We want to be consistent but can somebody explain the difference please ?--sairfeet (talk) 11:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Mainly an issue of semantics — but it does also (currently) affect the rendering which is probably why it has been changed. However I think that rendering that Princess Street as what could be read as private access only is rather misleading, or car centric at the least. Drnoble (talk) 10:10, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree that the map shouldn't be primarily tagged for cars. The West Maitland to Princes Street section is a key traffic artery into the city even if most of it is limited to public transport. The highway=primary/secondary tags are only really used (at least in Edinburgh) for the official A & B roads. I would therefore propose that this stretch is set to tertiary instead of unclassified to reflect its importance to traffic flow in the city.--sairfeet (talk) 17:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- I think this would be a good idea, and possibly demote the streets between Princess St and Queen St to unclassified, except for Hanover St which is a key link through from the mound --Drnoble (talk) 20:13, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
It's worth noting that Sabre currently implies that the A8 ends at the junction with Queensferry Road (A90) and Lothian Road (A700) although I agree that it makes more sense to end it at Palmerston Place (from where cars have to find their own way into the city centre).--sairfeet (talk) 17:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- I would say that the Road Classification and the way it's rendered on the map is primarily a way to help drivers work out where they can go. So where where differentiate from the official classifications, it should be based on the feel of the road, and there is an element of making sure that the network makes sense from the way it's laid out. So I can see that there is an argument for not demoting Princes Street/George Street, in order to keep the Hierarchy to Rose Street/Young Street etc down to the Service lanes. But I think we need to go with demoting Princes Street and George Street, and rely on the new additions of the Tram Tracks/ Cycle Lane and possibly a pedestrian Area to show the importance of the streets. Also the parking in the middle of George Street gives it some more gravitas. --Chris (talk) 21:51, 12 July 2014 (UTC)