Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Jan 26 2012
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harry-wood T minus 1 minute 22:59 harry-wood OK CHAT! 23:00 burns left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)). 23:01 harry-wood ant burns dodobas flavour FredB iknowJoseph jgc larryGone maning Pierzen pnorman skorasaurus wonderchook zvenzzon_ Hello 23:01 d95marty [~53f8db14@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:01 FredB Hi all 23:01 burns [~805fd4c1@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:01 PierZen zzz... 23:01 harry-wood Hi FredB 23:01 maning good morning. 23:02 flavour Pong 23:02 harry-wood It's time for a HOT chat 23:02 harry-wood what can we discuss today? 23:02 d95marty ...or rather good evening. At least in Sweden. :-) 23:02 jgc hi. just happening to see this. was going to go to sleep. might not remain for long... 23:02 harry-wood wonderchook as usual is a blizzard of activity 23:02 harry-wood but not sure which timezone she's in 23:03 harry-wood maybe she's asleep 23:03 harry-wood What does everyone think of the new website 23:03 harry-wood ? 23:03 PierZen she has a robot connecting to Hot 23:03 wonderchook is now known as Guest509 23:03 wonderchook [~wondercho@182.4.3.155] entered the room. 23:03 wonderchook left the room. 23:03 wonderchook [~wondercho@182.4.3.155] entered the room. 23:03 harry-wood http://hot.openstreetmap.org/ <— pretty awesome I would say 23:03 wonderchook yes thanks to Mike for finishing it=) 23:04 Guest509 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds). 23:04 IknowJoseph me too =) 23:04 d95marty Great pic on the startpage! 23:04 PierZen I love this picture in Indonesia. 23:04 harry-wood Thanks to maning for a recent blog post: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-01-25_hot_mapping_for_flash_flood_affected_areas_in_northern_mindanao_philippines 23:04 maning thanks to hotties for the help in mapping 23:05 wonderchook yeah, Jeff Haack took the pic during our "Dompu vs. BIma" mapping face off 23:05 harry-wood maning: Any particular mapping priorities in the philippines now? 23:06 burns left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)). 23:06 maning no specific request from the flood affected areas, but I will start mapping the inundated areas for some research on geohazards. 23:07 CGI122 [~d4ba40e1@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:07 harry-wood What's happening with you wonderchook? 23:08 wonderchook at this precise moment he power it out 23:09 wonderchook I'm in Dompu following up with some guys today 23:09 FischersFritz [~mzoss@104-121.106-92.cust.bluewin.ch] entered the room. 23:09 wonderchook finalizing the private datastore that links to OSM data 23:09 wonderchook so that people can do poverty mapping with it 23:09 IknowJoseph And Nicolas is in Haiti at the moment? 23:10 harry-wood he is yes 23:10 wonderchook correct 23:10 wonderchook for another week and a half 23:10 wonderchook there was a update about it on the website 23:10 IknowJoseph how's the psoition filling going over there? 23:11 IknowJoseph ok, I'll check that out 23:11 Severin [~bb7f9c7b@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:12 wonderchook the position for the Haitians to map? 23:13 wonderchook there is a post about that will go up today 23:13 wonderchook or tomorrow I guess for you guys in those other timezones 23:13 wonderchook well, except maning, today for him too;) 23:13 harry-wood There the internship position too: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/internship_in_saint_marc_haiti …any candidates for that so far? 23:13 IknowJoseph was thinking of the internship - wondered if there'd been much response 23:14 harry-wood quite a lot of "eligibility criteria"! 23:14 Severin I think 2 people at least expressed their interest 23:14 wonderchook 3 people have applied 23:14 wonderchook all of them would be qualified 23:14 harry-wood awesome 23:15 wonderchook harry-wood: yes there is, but we knew we'd get some people even with that 23:15 wonderchook plus also those things are really "nice to haves" 23:16 harry-wood yeah that's great. So we have a choice to make 23:16 wonderchook yeah, also I'd like to introduce severin who is joining us for this HOT chat 23:16 wonderchook his will be taking over for Nicolas for the month of Feb in Haiti 23:16 PierZen bonjour Severin 23:16 wonderchook he's worked on missions down there before, but been quiet=) 23:16 Severin till March 12th 23:17 IknowJoseph hi Sevrin 23:17 Severin Yeah, I must admit I am somehow to shy or not very communicative 23:17 wonderchook I'm currently on a mission to beat everyone into blogging;) 23:17 harry-wood needs to blog some (late) thoughts on MapAction 23:18 Severin I will post in february 23:18 harry-wood I was just looking at the tasking manager. 23:19 harry-wood seems like the Pedang building mapping is the job most ripe for people to contribute to 23:19 wonderchook yes 23:19 harry-wood this one: http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/9 23:19 wonderchook we really need to finish it 23:19 wonderchook the government is doing an exercise there 23:19 wonderchook and it will really help show the utility of OSM 23:20 wonderchook and what it can do 23:20 harry-wood Anyone any good at making screencasts? I think we could do with a screencast 23:20 harry-wood to help get more people joining in 23:20 Severin I currently have a ongoing tile on Padang and yes it is a long job for the areas downtown 23:21 harry-wood Does the 'currently worked on' status still time out after an hour? 23:21 Severin I think the imagaery accuracy has benn improved from the beginning so that building on some areas has to offset 23:22 Severin have to be offset sorry 23:22 harry-wood quite possibly. Think there was a shift with one of the updates to the imagery 23:23 wonderchook I learned how to process imagery is what happened 23:23 wonderchook =) 23:23 wonderchook harry-wood I think i times out after 2 hours 23:23 wonderchook I'm not sure 23:23 Severin the thing is also the contibutros are few but the supervisors still more 23:24 harry-wood Mappers tend to worry too much about imagery offset actually. 23:24 harry-wood I mean it's annoying if somebody moves your stuff that you've placed correctly, but for new mapping of an area... 23:24 harry-wood …you can just relax and whack in some data. Hope that someone will straighten it later 23:25 wonderchook yeah, I think it is fine for people not to worry too, too much 23:25 Severin time out is an issue for Padang cause it takes hours for a tile so that most of people would like to do it in several times, I guess. Even it is timed out, it there an possibility to add a proposition for adding a bookmark ? 23:26 Severin If I remeber well, I had to go abck from the selection webpage 23:26 PierZen a button to ask for more time? 23:26 wonderchook yeah those have all been talked about 23:27 Severin I would sqy jsut to go back to the webpage to enter the same tile 23:27 Severin cause i think it is not the case now 23:28 harry-wood yes. that is effectively requesting more time 23:28 wonderchook there is a wiki page for requests 23:28 wonderchook https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/wiki/Feature-Requests 23:28 Severin if it is timed out you have to do all the process again 23:28 Severin OK great 23:28 PierZen The server should ask before timeout if the mapper wants more time. 23:28 PierZen Feasible? 23:29 maning I see a lot of tiles that has buildings mapped already but were never marked as "Done" 23:29 PierZen You can work without passing through the server. Or you could stop before finishing. 23:30 Severin are they complete ? 23:30 maning we should at least marked them as "done" 23:30 Severin do you consider adding an ongoing category ? 23:30 maning "Complete" is relative :) 23:30 wonderchook well, are they done maning? 23:30 harry-wood yes. I think maybe there should be a way of marking as "done" without claiming that you did it 23:30 wonderchook I mean I think there are some that aren't completely done 23:30 wonderchook I don't think we should worry too much about the claiming you did it thing 23:31 wonderchook I think it is okay 23:31 wonderchook unless we start giving out points 23:31 wonderchook tradable for HOT merchandise;) 23:31 harry-wood hehe 23:31 PierZen HOT Air MIles! 23:31 Severin your link points out this one: https://github.com/pgiraud/OSMTM/issues Is it the good place ? 23:32 wonderchook oops 23:32 wonderchook yeah, I forgot it moved from the wiki to tracking 23:32 Severin 23:35 harry-wood wish I had some time to poke around and help with the coding 23:35 d95marty G'nite all! I've mostly been listening in, since you've covered what I've been interested in anyway. Doing tasks, that is. But it's way past bedtime here now, so I better get going... 23:37 harry-wood good night 23:37 harry-wood I think perhaps we can draw this chat to a close soon 23:37 Severin good night 23:37 harry-wood any other points on the un-agenda 23:38 harry-wood ? 23:38 d95marty left the room. 23:38 PierZen Libya Health Registry, the Interactive Map is multilingual. See http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/openlayers/libya_health.php?lang=en 23:38 wonderchook I think I'd bring up there are working groups started 23:38 nfgusedautoparts [~Adium@cpe-74-76-11-231.nycap.res.rr.com] entered the room. 23:38 harry-wood ooh 23:38 IknowJoseph just had a quick question about Frederic an DRC 23:38 harry-wood that's three other points! 23:38 Severin I can add more if you want 23:39 wonderchook well, these things are sorta informal 23:39 wonderchook so basically Severin it is if you want to add things 23:39 wonderchook or if you have questions 23:39 wonderchook this is the doodle for the Training Working Group meeting time next week: http://www.doodle.com/v7q6kkw6vr6nu3r6 23:40 IknowJoseph When Frederic asks for someone to set up aWMS server, does he need hosting or just man power? 23:40 FredB IknowJoseph: it was both 23:41 worldwidewolford [~c8028d8e@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:41 Severin something we are currently talking with Dane and Manel regarding OSM data mining in GIS contexts 23:41 nico [~c8028d8e@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:41 FredB Karen Payne s working on the WMS but we had a problem with the rara archive, should be fixed tomorrow 23:41 Severin it appears it is tricky to use the OSM data on classical GIS softs 23:41 Severin as ArcGIS 23:42 nico Is this for DRC? 23:42 Severin basically due to the OSM field structure 23:42 wonderchook well, I think the issue is that we need to create extracts 23:43 wonderchook the field structure works fine if you pick out data layers for people to use 23:43 wonderchook FredB: sorry I haven't gotten the tiles up, the internet has been worse than normal 23:43 FredB Severin: did you try the OSM plugin for ArcGis 10 ? 23:44 IknowJoseph FredB: I may be able to help with with bandwidth 23:44 Severin left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). 23:44 Severin [~bb7f9c7b@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 23:45 FredB Thanks for the help offers, a new rar archive should be posted tomorrow. I think Karen will do it but we get back to you if you ave problems 23:46 Severin sorry back 23:46 wonderchook Severin: could I be included in those discussions? I've been making extracts for GIS people 23:46 Severin I tried arcgis OSM plugin when I was in Haiti and it never managed to load the data I wanted on a Pap neighbourhood 23:46 Severin Soes it works ? 23:46 IknowJoseph on the subject of training material, I wrote a short chapter on postgis + osm + ubuntu 23:47 Severin But currently the QGIS 1.7.3 seems not to have the last ogr2ogr version 23:47 IknowJoseph adapted the Windows instructions to Ubuntu 23:47 IknowJoseph showed it to Nico and some others 23:47 IknowJoseph happy to do more if it's wanted? 23:47 CGI122 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). 23:47 Severin and every export od OSM data from QGIS provides a crazy attrib table 23:47 harry-wood I know ESRI did a lot improvements to their OSM related software 23:48 IknowJoseph Ubuntu 12.04 will be supported for 5 years, so could be a good target for documentation 23:48 Severin OK I will test it again 23:48 harry-wood so if you were trying >1 year ago… probably it was more pants 23:48 Severin haha 23:48 Severin no was in December last year 23:48 harry-wood but I have no direct experience of it myself 23:48 harry-wood there' is this problem that the craziness of OSM tags needs to be mashed and squashed down into the orderliness of a shapefile 23:49 harry-wood to avoid bazillions of attributes 23:49 Severin the main concern are the colons 23:49 Severin in the field names 23:49 wonderchook Severin: we've been doing a lot with QGIS it doesn't have to have a crazy attribute table 23:50 wonderchook hey IknowJoseph: it could be useful, but almost everyone we teach 99.9% is using Windows 23:50 wonderchook and I don't see us switching their operating system 23:50 IknowJoseph https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FBZl8MCbDsXXh_nve83lcGK3QwPTkOWc1AKTSv4gmj8/ <-- if interested 23:50 Severin It does work till you stay in POstGIS and using QGIS 23:50 IknowJoseph wonderchook: fair enough 23:50 wonderchook Severin: if you stay in PostGIS with QGIS? 23:50 Severin So I lose some departments that are based on ArcGIS 23:51 wonderchook IknowJoseph: maybe if we were working with more tech savvy peole or were the ones handing them the hardware 23:51 flavour left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51 harry-wood I spent some time trying to come up with tools recommendations for MapAction 23:51 flavour [~Fran@87-194-113-70.bethere.co.uk] entered the room. 23:52 harry-wood but I'm not enough of a shapefile expert really. 23:52 IknowJoseph wonderchook: yes, that's what i was thinking - complete deployments 23:53 harry-wood But i did discover that there are at least three different utils named osm2shp! 23:53 PierZen IknowJoseph : Your url opens on a blank page in my browser. 23:53 IknowJoseph Pierzen: this one? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FBZl8MCbDsXXh_nve83lcGK3QwPTkOWc1AKTSv4gmj8/edit 23:53 PierZen a lot better! 23:53 IknowJoseph =) 23:54 Severin I tried to create a sql script to rename the field names within PgadminIII 23:54 Severin but the thing is the whole exporting process becomes hard for non tech people 23:55 harry-wood MapAction find geofabrik's download service useful for shapefiles, so I spent some time looking at the tool they use ( http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/export/osm2shp ) And trying compile this for windows, so they could run it themselves 23:55 harry-wood I think this may be quite easy for somebody who knows how to compile C++ stuff on windows 23:55 Severin as most of prject manager handling mostly Google Earth and KMZ that may be frustrated to see the whole data on OSM but nto having the possibility to put it on their usual GIS soft 23:56 nico So on the Saint Marc project HOT has in Haiti, there's a budget line to have GeoFabrik developing a data dowmload service based on a set of tags defined by a preset- 23:57 harry-wood Oh now that sounds good! 23:57 nico We need to document the issues that IOM came accross in Cite Soleil and make sure that this is part of the stuffs to fix 23:58 Severin geofabrik download service produce the most common layers and tags (at least for Haiti) but for dedicated data we have to go through osm2pgsql 23:58 nico I'll open up a thread on the Tech Group of HOT 23:58 Severin which is easy in QGIS, but is currently limited by exports issue 23:58 nico Well, the GeoFab service will be based on a preset- 23:58 nico So you have for the future flexibility to show the tags you are interested in a survey or a mapping project 23:59 Severin yes definbitely it will makes the things easier 23:59 wonderchook left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds). 23:59 nico This does not solve the issues that you are struggling right now 23:59 harry-wood Severin: QGIS is presumably limited in the size of data you can load in no? 23:59 harry-wood What was the exports issue/ 23:59 Thursday, 26 January 2012 00:00 Severin but we also need to provide a strong process on local machine that any GIS officer can easily use without any trouble 00:00 maning left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)). 00:00 Severin exports issue due to colons that create crazy .dbf for shapes 00:01 harry-wood A need that mapaction presented, was to achieve shapefile daily updates with low-bandwidth 00:01 ant left the room. 00:01 Severin and the postgis database can be accessed thourgh arcgis and the objets senn but as long there are field names with colons, the attribute table is blank 00:02 Severin I am not sure regarding QGIS limits 00:02 Severin So far I have not been restricted by that 00:03 Severin at least 00:03 harry-wood Ah so you just need to not have colons in the keys & values? 00:03 Severin in the keys 00:03 Severin but some common keys have 00:04 harry-wood Yeah. Could be replaced by an '_' or something though, to fix the issue? 00:04 nico There is also a need to clean parts of the data which had been edited through serveral versions of presets and been also edited the Haitian way with a lot of tag issues 00:04 nico which right now calls for calling many tables to retrieve all the assessed data- 00:05 Severin yes this is exactly what I tried to do 00:05 Severin but maybe we can talk about these technical fixes in an other palce 00:06 Severin all I wanted to say is that currently the local machine way with standard .osm is not easy and could dissapoint the humanitarian partner we have been working with 00:07 Severin partnerS 00:07 maning [~7c6a3dd8@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room. 00:08 harry-wood Yes. Definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between between OSM and shapefiles, despite the various tools out there. 00:08 harry-wood It's not just humanitarian use that would benefit from these problems getting easier 00:09 harry-wood on another tech topic… I wanted to ask maning about Orbview3 00:10 harry-wood maning: did you manage to georectify a philippines patch? 00:10 harry-wood Some croatians were working on various bits. I pulled out this example image http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OrbView-3 00:11 harry-wood looks pretty good. Is this… worldwide??? 00:12 maning not yet 00:12 maning should we wait for the second level of corrections? 00:12 PierZen Any Imagery around Libya? 00:12 maning yes, its worldwide 00:13 harry-wood We have imagery at a similar resolution that that sample…. wordwide??? 00:14 PierZen How do we interrogate to find an area? 00:14 maning from the vector1 annoncement: "The initial data format available is GeoEye’s Basic Enhanced (L1B) product. Processing is underway for terrain corrected (L1Gst) product, and eventually the entire data set will be processed to the L1Gst level." 00:14 maning L1Gst should provide some sytemtic topographic corrections 00:15 maning are there plans for OSm to host tiles? or we host tiles ourselves? 00:15 harry-wood I dont know of any plans by the London server team to do this 00:16 harry-wood but we could ask them about it 00:16 maning to browse coverage go to earthexplorer" http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ 00:16 PierZen thanks. 00:17 harry-wood tried that, but what do I click on? 00:17 harry-wood I can't work it out 00:17 maning bbox search and check the orbview-3 as images 00:17 maning Datasets > OrbView-3 00:18 harry-wood ah hmm. I see some little rectangular thumbnails 00:19 harry-wood Big downloads I presume 00:19 harry-wood ah no I can overlay image. I see it now 00:20 maning yep, so if we have central repo to upload tiles, I can do the select and process PH and dump them somewhere 00:20 PierZen I selected a point in Libya, + in the list dataset > orbview3. No result found. 00:20 harry-wood For haiti we set up some tilesets on the dev server 00:21 harry-wood You have a dev server account maning? 00:21 IknowJoseph Pierzen, how big was your point? 00:22 IknowJoseph I selected the whole of Syria and got plenty of results 00:22 maning nope. 00:22 PierZen do you mean i should have a bbox? I simply clicke on the map. 00:22 IknowJoseph try drawing a bb 00:23 nico @ harrry : I was chekcing on site for haiti, interested in getting access to your resource 00:23 harry-wood my resource? 00:24 maning have to go, will cjeck logs later 00:24 nico We might also need server hosting resources for one of the WB imagery that all GIS actors are holding as the reference one for all the PAP metropolitan areea 00:24 maning bye 00:24 Severin yes for some remote areas it could be interesting even if the data is from 2003-2007 right ? 00:24 nico yes 00:25 Severin bye 00:25 PierZen IknowJoseph: Thanks. I have succeeded. I will look at this imagery. 00:25 maning left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). 00:26 IknowJoseph Pierzen: You need an account to download - presumably they let anyone register, but I've not tried 00:26 PierZen I will try. We need better imagery for Libya Health Facility. Bing is not detailed in all areas of Libya. 00:26 harry-wood I tried a bbox in London. It comes back with a strange patchwork of different areas 00:27 PierZen We can open the image. It gives a bigger screen. But after, the list of maps is gone. 00:29 nico In Haiti, it looks like there is a set of images to chew- 00:29 IknowJoseph Just tried a large area around oxford - came up with a single image full of clouds :-/ 00:31 PierZen wait tommorow may be better in England. 00:31 harry-wood hehe 00:31 IknowJoseph well, it's a pretty accurate picture :) 00:31 harry-wood Yeah lots of cloudy images here 00:31 IknowJoseph saves server space too - just symlink to some clouds 00:32 worldwidewolford left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). 00:32 harry-wood hehe 00:35 harry-wood right. I'm off to bed