Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Community/2014-09-20

Meeting kick off the HOT Community Working Group

Mainly working on drafting our Terms Of Reference (TOR) doc.

TOR doc: https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-TOR-VFGO5VdJKTg (currently draft)

Agenda and notes: https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn (doc starting from previous meeting notes)

IRC log:

14:27 heatherleson: We’ll be taking notes here on the community sprint doc - https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
14:27 heatherleson: These will be transfered to the wiki. (Note all our legacy research and previous sprints are on this link.)
14:27 heatherleson: Harry-wood, can you please advise if I captured the agenda right?
14:28 harry-wood: ok
14:31 harry-wood: Alright then! Who have we got for the Community Working Group meeting?
14:32 Tallguy: Count me in
14:32 heatherleson: here
14:32 heatherleson: hey tallguy
14:32 russdeffner: Hello Harry and Heather, just waking up, but here
14:32 russdeffner: and Nick :)
14:32 heatherleson: Hi Russell!
14:32 harry-wood: heatherleson did you ever meet tallguy (Nick) he's another Londoner
14:32 heatherleson: i sent you a love note - resolution process : )
14:33 heatherleson: also add FOFANA BAZO BAGNOUMANA
14:33 heatherleson: he is on our collaborative doc : )
14:33 heatherleson: maybe he can only join by text
14:34 heatherleson: left him a note to ask
14:34 heatherleson: harry-wood, I don’t think I met tallguy yet
14:34 harry-wood: OK so agenda doc is here: https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
14:34 heatherleson: unless he was at the MSF /Haiyan meeting last november?
14:35 harry-wood: and first thing we should do is draft TOR (Terms Of Reference)
14:35 Tallguy: No, don't think we've met yet
14:35 heatherleson: ok, so I reviewed our previous minutes for the mandate. I added the notes to my first draft
14:36 harry-wood: This hackpad also has lots of notes from the previous meeting hey?
14:36 : marc1909 left the room (quit: Quit: marc1909).
14:36 heatherleson: yep
14:36 heatherleson: i am trying to help Fofana Bazo Bagoumana> he is not on irc as of yet
14:37 heatherleson: the one thing that we need to be clear on is the original community working group plan has much content about training. We can now remove that as the Training working group can cover it. Though , as claire mentioned, we need to be sure to not overlap
14:38 harry-wood: yes
14:38 harry-wood: good to take that out of scope
14:38 heatherleson: noted
14:38 heatherleson: tallguy can be our check/balance too as he was in that group too
14:39 heatherleson: Russell was in the original meetings about community.
14:39 harry-wood: Shall we make a different document for the Terms Of Reference?
14:39 heatherleson: yes
14:39 heatherleson: link it to these minutes? new hackpad
14:40 : Fofana [~9a42ab2d@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.
14:41 harry-wood: Hi Fofana
14:41 Fofana: hi harry
14:41 harry-wood: you've made it onto IRC!  :-)
14:41 heatherleson: Hurray!
14:41 heatherleson: great
14:41 Fofana: think
14:41 heatherleson: harry I will set up the new hackpad and link back
14:41 Fofana: excuse me my english is ot very good
14:42 heatherleson: https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-TOR-VFGO5VdJKTg
14:42 heatherleson: Fofana, please excuse my poor French (it that the language you speak?)
14:42 heatherleson: bonjour, alors
14:42 Fofana: yes
14:42 harry-wood: oopse. OK was doing that at the same time
14:43 harry-wood: we'll go with that one though: https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-TOR-VFGO5VdJKTg
14:43 heatherleson: so sorry
14:43 harry-wood: Another starting point for this doc is my wiki description
14:43 heatherleson: fofana, where are you joining us from
14:43 Fofana: bonjour heather
14:43 heatherleson: harry, agreed. I added some notes to your wiki too
14:44 heatherleson: scraping the wiki, sec
14:44 harry-wood: pasted it in
14:44 heatherleson: too slow
14:44 heatherleson: thank you
14:44 harry-wood: I'm not sure if that fits with your view of what this WG was about
14:45 heatherleson: it is spot on
14:45 harry-wood: I guess a TOR doc needs to get more specific too. Other WG TOR docs have had bullet point lists of things
14:45 heatherleson: my items are actions to make that possible
14:45 heatherleson: so yours is the framing
14:45 heatherleson: and mine is the actions
14:45 heatherleson: switched the order]
14:45 Fofana: in Burkina Faso
14:46 heatherleson: tallguy, russell, fofana - what do you think the community working group needs to do/deliver
14:46 heatherleson: Bien, Fofana. I know some open data activists from Burkina
14:46 Tallguy: make the process more friendly if possible
14:47 Tallguy: dark room working alone is not the image we wish to portray
14:47 heatherleson: changing the actions into sentences
14:47 heatherleson: Yea, tallguy
14:48 heatherleson: this is why i starting calling it hot saturdays to try and have people co-map sometimes or co-build
14:48 heatherleson: but I think this is a larger programatic connection needed
14:49 heatherleson: tallguy - Sustain/Support current community and membership
14:49 russdeffner: ToR is looking good to me, still not fully awake, but did want to say that I think it's ok, maybe necessary to have some overlap with Training and Communication WG
14:50 heatherleson: perhaps your point could be a subpoint to that
14:51 Tallguy: For remote mappers it tends to be either a mapathon, or working alone - can there be a halfway house - asigned to a team & teams deal with issues?
14:51 harry-wood: ressdeffner There was a project you were suggesting at one stage I think, to contact all of the members and create little profile descriptions of them for the website. I see that sort of thing as a good Community WG project
14:51 heatherleson: Russ - add - There will be some overlap with the training and communications working groups. The community working group will coordinate with other WG to ensure success.
14:51 heatherleson: tallguy - great suff. can you add that?
14:52 harry-wood: (This is the TOR doc we're drafting https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-TOR-VFGO5VdJKTg to be clear)
14:53 heatherleson: tallguy - I added your excellent point
14:53 heatherleson: this is how the standby taskforce works
14:54 russdeffner: harry-wood Yes, there was some talk about that, may be 'replaced by'/be part of the Membership Report instead
14:55 bgirardot: Hi, sorry I am late. Catching up now.
14:55 heatherleson: fofana - what items do you think are needed?
14:55 heatherleson: two docs for you bgirardot
14:55 heatherleson: the draft tor - https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-TOR-VFGO5VdJKTg
14:55 heatherleson: our main docs - https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
14:55 bgirardot: tyvm
14:56 heatherleson: Russ, I think it is very great. Maybe to add under sustain
14:56 russdeffner: But this WG is perfect if we do want to have Member profiles or something, somewhere
14:57 heatherleson: i think it should be a tab on the website and.or wiki. mikel was working in the tech wg to get it on the website
14:57 heatherleson: opt in, ofo course
14:59 harry-wood: I think the website profiles thing is good because it's a "getting to know eachother" sort of thing.
14:59 harry-wood: Maybe there's other projects like that
15:00 heatherleson: mozilla puts them on a separate site called ‘mozillians’
15:00 heatherleson: it is a best practice
15:00 heatherleson: i just wanted to say how awesome this tor looks
15:00 harry-wood: Maybe we could identify clusters of HOTties in different locations, and make sure that each of these communities is represented
15:00 heatherleson: a self-identified map or mappers
15:01 heatherleson: easy to do with leaflet
15:01 harry-wood: by represented I mean .. they feel able to join in with the mailing list conversations, they feel like the rest of the community has noticed them
15:01 heatherleson: that is more of an action
15:01 heatherleson: rather than a tor item
15:01 heatherleson: but will doc it on the sprint notes. love the idea
15:01 harry-wood: Sure yeah I thinking of actions and projects for us
15:02 heatherleson: we wrote tons in our last talks.
15:02 heatherleson: bgiradot, fofana, russdeffner, tallguy - what else is missing from the draft tor?
15:03 bgirardot: My first quick read catching up it looked very good. I'll read it again now.
15:03 heatherleson: thanks!
15:04 russdeffner: Just pondering the Mentorship - am I thinking it 'wrong', will this be training focused?
15:04 russdeffner: or something else?
15:04 heatherleson: i think they overlap some russdeffner, but not always
15:04 heatherleson: i have online communty partners who work with me in my field
15:05 heatherleson: we check in with each other.
15:05 heatherleson: mentorship is about training but it is also about support and cameraderie
15:05 bgirardot: The only thing I would add is something somehow related to reaching out to all new mappers right away, contact as soon as possible to welcome them into the community and show them around the community a little bit (mail list, irc, forum, profiles, people in their area, etc.)
15:05 harry-wood: I'm tending to think of things about actual mapping, as either "training" (learning how) or "activation" (coordinating at the time)
15:05 heatherleson: this speaks to tallguy’s point about healthy communities taking care of each other.
15:06 heatherleson: we know that people burn out in our field. a mentorship or mapping partner programme might help minimize the isolation
15:06 heatherleson: bgiradot - I agree. one of the actions we had on the other doc was a welcome kit
15:07 heatherleson: adding your specific note to the tor
15:07 harry-wood: Yeah I guess we should look at the list of people actually doing mapping (feed of edits in a task area), and make sure we're including all of those people in the community
15:07 Tallguy: one of the documents talks about taking a break - sorry, can't remember which one that I've read today. Important to stress we need a community long term, not just a short intense bout of mapping followed by burn out.
15:07 : marc1909 [~marc1909@p579C8C1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room.
15:07 bgirardot: I fear we lose remote people because they are not welcomed and follow up with. But that is a big job depending on how it is done.
15:08 heatherleson: bgirardot - i agree
15:08 Tallguy: I agree - have sent messages to mappers when validated their 'work' but it needs more
15:08 russdeffner: I agree, even an automated message when they take a task could help; I think we talked about that in another WG
15:08 heatherleson: tallguy - that was the resolution doc, but it is also in reference to my notes after Haiyan and last spring
15:08 heatherleson: russdeffner - true
15:08 bgirardot: I agree russdeffner
15:09 heatherleson: adding that to our top actions list on the other doc - https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
15:09 russdeffner: Not sure how to word in the ToR, but maybe something about helping design our tools (website, TM, LearnOSM) to increase Community involvement?
15:10 Tallguy: I still think encouraging validators to leave positive comments, like 'thanks, looks good' and making these more accessible could help
15:10 bgirardot: As much as we might overlap and interact with the training WG, we need the Technical WG a great deal as well. the TM2 is a big part of the community, or could be.
15:10 heatherleson: very good points all
15:10 bgirardot: Tallguy: I agree 100%, but, focusing on validation will only reach people who mark a task done, not all the people that worked on it and didn't mark it done and newbies in particular seem not to mark tasks done.
15:11 heatherleson: russdeffner - added this to the tor
15:11 harry-wood: I reworded the translation one. Rather than "Building" translation. I think this working group would just be "reviewing". Looking at it from a local communities point of view
15:11 heatherleson: harry-wood = great
15:11 Tallguy: bgirardot - agreed, but it is a big step in the right direction to holding onto those who do finish a square
15:12 bgirardot: tallguy: I guess I mean to say, yes, that would be very helpful.... opps, yes, exactly what you said, good step no matter what.
15:13 heatherleson: tallguy/bgirardot - I think this is under sustain and support, but your words seem to be to be a top action needed. so i will add to top actions
15:13 harry-wood: Do you think this working group should solidifying the concept of "membership" in some way? Or we're more about building the wider community
15:13 russdeffner: harry-wood maybe we also need to be doing outreach to boost the number of languages and completion?
15:13 heatherleson: adding here -0 https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
15:14 heatherleson: i am calling it a contributor encouragement programme (includes validators)
15:14 russdeffner: So, you Board folks will know more than I, but is there not some sort of 'secondary' member being discussed for Bylaws?
15:15 bgirardot: harry-wood: I feel like basic membership in the community should be very wide open, if you added anything on a task, you're a member and welcome to the community :)
15:15 heatherleson: one thing I want to say about outreach is that i am very worried about the lack of women (Claire, Kate and I are talking about this). There are some upcoming plans from the org and board.
15:15 harry-wood: yeah no I meaning the other "membership" concept… which is less wide open
15:15 russdeffner: Yes bgirardot, however we currently have Members defined in our Bylaws
15:16 heatherleson: I think we have come far in terms of being more inclusive in our language and tone with each other. this is one thing that needs help too
15:16 bgirardot: I see.
15:16 harry-wood: Maybe the "members" has nothing to do with it
15:16 harry-wood: but I was coming back to the profiles on the website idea
15:17 heatherleson: russdeffner - i think language to completion is one point. Sev made some great points about support and more engagement in other languages. Fofana is very quiet here today and it might be due to us only speaking english.
15:17 bgirardot: heatherleson: I agree very much with outreach to women
15:18 heatherleson: i am super proud when women come up to me and ask questions. I try to encourage them to join
15:18 bgirardot: I don't know how to do it, but I would very much agree it is important
15:18 heatherleson: yeah, kate and claire are on the case as they have more mapping experience . just wanted to note it
15:19 heatherleson: ok, what are we doing with the membership items above. Tor or not? or an action to followup?
15:19 russdeffner: Yes, the language and communication methods could be a discussion point for this group
15:19 heatherleson: it is in the tor
15:19 russdeffner: or should that be Communications wg?
15:19 Tallguy: I think communications wg is mainly outside comms. like facebook
15:19 russdeffner: The reason we moved back to IRC (away from Mumble) was that translating text is easier than voice on the fly
15:19 heatherleson: yeah
15:20 heatherleson: ok, regarding translation and how to build community. i will add an action.
15:20 heatherleson: Harry we almost at an hour
15:20 heatherleson: 10 minutes
15:20 russdeffner: but as we see, still not 'good enough', or ideal for getting non-english speakers envolved
15:21 heatherleson: agree. this is why i added it as an action
15:22 harry-wood: should we group these items under larger headings? Im thinking there's a few items about "mapping and activation", some around "Inclusivity. Bringing together disperse communities", maybe some around "getting to know eachother"
15:22 heatherleson: fofana, j’m’excuse. Que pensez-vous du mandat? (What do you think about the TOR?)
15:23 heatherleson: sounds good
15:24 harry-wood: Yes I think I'd be in favour or re-organising a little
15:24 harry-wood: broader headings
15:24 harry-wood: this might mean we can drop some of the detail from the TOR document and *only* have the broader headings
15:24 harry-wood: Maybe that's an action I can take away and do later?
15:25 heatherleson: yes
15:25 heatherleson: this is why i started to park it on our community notes section
15:26 harry-wood: in the other doc you mean? https://hackpad.com/HOT-Community-Sprint-PT9LYvG5aDn
15:26 russdeffner: agree, don't want to restrict scope unnecessarily
15:26 Tallguy: Could we establish our mappers language preferences?
15:27 russdeffner: Don't know an easy way, but this is where language specific mailing lists may really help
15:28 heatherleson: hackpad undo process blows
15:29 harry-wood: What is meant by "resolution process" ?
15:29 harry-wood: Resolution of disputes on the mailing list? that sort of thing?
15:29 : ptressel [~chatzilla@174-31-246-188.tukw.qwest.net] entered the room.
15:30 harry-wood: just noticing we had that on the agenda
15:30 heatherleson: hi harry
15:30 heatherleson: i made some edits to the tor and moved actions. future programmes to the minutes
15:31 heatherleson: I put “resolution process’ if we had time
15:31 russdeffner: Oh, yes I started reading the resolution draft but haven't got through it all
15:31 heatherleson: but I can work with russdeffner and others on this once the meeting is done
15:31 heatherleson: the TOR was our priority today, but I wanted to get the resolution process out soon once we are ok
15:32 harry-wood: Should that kind of thing be mentioned on the TOR?
15:32 heatherleson: Resolution process was discussed at the HOT board meeting. Not sure if it is tor but maybe
15:32 heatherleson: we really want to encourage a healthy supportive community. we are passionate. sometimes we need to hug, sometimes we need to talk it out : )
15:33 harry-wood: We could say the working group is about ensure that happens
15:33 heatherleson: others, what do you think
15:33 heatherleson: yeah
15:33 heatherleson: that is why i mentioned it. a community should take care of each other
15:33 heatherleson: so how about
15:33 Tallguy: It's certainly true that feelings can run high & some guidance would be good on occassion
15:34 Tallguy: part of a 'tip of the week' on HOT mailing list?
15:34 heatherleson: ‘encourage and support a healthy community guided by the membership code of conduct and by building peaceful collaboration’
15:34 heatherleson: adding to the tor
15:34 harry-wood: Will this WG be in charge of resolution processes and guidelines?
15:34 : le_loup_qui_rit [~Thunderbi@109.89.170.108] entered the room.
15:34 heatherleson: i think so
15:34 harry-wood: yeah like that sentence
15:35 harry-wood: OK. Well I think we've made some progress towards a TOR in this hour
15:35 heatherleson: i think that community and members via the community working group could work to resolve things together with russ as chair
15:35 russdeffner: If the Board is going to delegate to a wg, this is the one, IMO
15:36 heatherleson: thanks russdeffner.
15:36 harry-wood: Shall we ruminate on that for a while?
15:36 heatherleson: i really did some soul searching on that topic and called some help to buid the process
15:36 heatherleson: yes
15:36 harry-wood: I guess we can continue to tweak the TOR over the next few days.
15:36 Tallguy: It would be better to have a resolution process that does not involve the 'chair' in case of a further viewing being required
15:36 heatherleson: i think it belongs. but happy to wait for other input and give times to think
15:37 heatherleson: ok, great. input tallguy. this is really to be defined by all.
15:37 heatherleson: harry - thanks for organizing and all for writing the first tor draft
15:37 : spatialfrog left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
15:37 harry-wood: at some point we'll present it to the other board members
15:38 harry-wood: and the mailing list
15:38 heatherleson: great stuff
15:38 harry-wood: Shall we aim to do that in ~48 hours time
15:38 harry-wood: ?
15:38 heatherleson: so the formal meeting is adjourned?
15:38 heatherleson: sounds good
15:38 harry-wood: Gives us a bit of time for tweaks
15:38 harry-wood: we can have some more conversations about it
15:38 heatherleson: russdeffner - do you have time to talk about the resolution part?
15:39 harry-wood: but for now we can adjourn the meeting yes
15:39 russdeffner: Yes, need to go get more coffee, be back in a few minutes
15:39 heatherleson: or, would you like to do that via email? I sent it to you
15:39 heatherleson: kk
15:39 heatherleson: i have another hour of HOT time this am to give
15:39 heatherleson: I try to do every saturday morning on board stuff or other
15:40 harry-wood: OK thanks everyone. I will paste IRC log into the wiki
15:40 bgirardot: Thank you all
15:40 Tallguy: Thank you, merci
15:44 heatherleson: thanks all
15:44 heatherleson: so productive
15:45 Fofana: thinks all i trying to follow
15:47 russdeffner: Thank you Fofana for joining us
15:47 Fofana: thank Russel
15:47 russdeffner: heatherleson - reading the resolution process now
15:47 : ptressel left the room (quit: Quit: bbl).
15:48 Fofana: I wanted to say that I try to follow