Proposal talk:Obligatory access suffix

I oppose "This proposal deprecates the usage of bicycle=designated/yes on ways with cycleway=*+bicycle:obligatory=* since a cycleway=* is always designated.". This makes OK to use for example "[highway=path, foot=designated, cycleway=lane]" instead of "[highway=path, foot=designated, bicycle=designated, cycleway=lane]" or more typical "[highway=path, foot=designated, bicycle=designated]" Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:13, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

"cycleway=lane" on "highway=path" is news to me. --Hubert87 (talk) 21:27, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

It is rare but I encountered this type of tagging. I would strongly prefer to not describe or hint that it is normal tagging method. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:28, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

The section has been overhauled, do your objections still stand?--Jojo4u (talk) 12:36, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

No, it is now solved Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Just a semantic suggestion: You might consider replacing "official" by "mandatory" which is a more common term in a legal context - borrowed from SimonPoole in http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=552116#p552116 --geow (talk) 21:26, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

You mean obligatory by mandatory? Mandatory is not well fitted, see proposal, compulsory might be an alternative. Will ask in RfC.--Jojo4u (talk) 07:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

bicycle=obligatory and cycleway=obligatory

I believe your conclusion that "the property obligatory and access=* are orthogonal and bicycle=obligatory mixes this up." and "cycleway=obligatory overwrites cycleway=lane/track/..., which is unwanted." is not correct.
AFAIK a obligatory cycleway is also designated to cyclists and cyclist therefore have to be allowed on them. In short: "bicycle=obligatory" implies "bicycle=designated" implies "bicycle=yes". Since there is a dependency both tags can not be orthogonal.
cycleway=obligatory does not overrite cycleway=lane/track/... because it is used on highway=cycleway, while the second ones are used on highway=residential/[higher] --Hubert87 (talk) 21:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Your second argument: A highway=secondary with cycleway=track can't be described by cycleway=obligatory. And using cycleway=* to describe a highway=cycleway is just mixing the meaning of a key up. And what about paths?--Jojo4u (talk) 17:26, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

You're right. I carelessly lost veiw of that case.--Hubert87 (talk) 19:31, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Missing examples

One thing that is missing is an example tagged not as tag on road, but as a separate highway=cycleway Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Mention countries where bicycle=designated implies bicycle:obligatory=yes

In some countries like Poland bicycle=designated implies bicycle:obligatory=yes and bicycle=yes implies bicycle:obligatory=no. It may be worth mentioning how to handle such situations (I would consider adding explicit bicycle:obligatory as OK). Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:20, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I added bicycle:obligatory=no as default. If this is the law in Poland you have to add bicycle:obligatory=yes to every bicycle=designated. Are you sure that you don't mix up yes/designated up in Poland? In Germany many well-built cycleways are bicycle=yes since they are not obligatory. --Jojo4u (talk) 12:20, 1 October 2015 (UTC)