Talk:Key:crossing ref

Pedestrian crossover definition?

The value pxo was justed added, but the definition is unclear. Are there flashing lights or signs or some special marking that are different than other crossings?

"A crossover is a pedestrian crossing where signs — and in many cases overhead flashing yellow lights — alert drivers to come to a stop. A crosswalk on the other hand is used at stop signs and traffic lights in Ontario..."A pedestrian crossover (PXO) is a designated crossing area that allows pedestrians to safely cross the road where vehicles must yield to the pedestrian. PXOs are identified by specific pavement markings and crossing signs. Pedestrians have the right of way at PXO. http://activesaferoutes.ca/resources/pedestrian-crossovers/

But what are the specific pavement markings and signs? How is this different than a usual crossing in Canada? Don't pedestrians have the right of way at those too? --Jeisenbe (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

• As with pelican and toucan crossings you can find the definition here: Key:crossing#Examples. I don't have image upload rights, if someone could add this as an illustration to the example section that would be great: Link to mapillary--Zzptichka (talk) 15:21, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, I did not think to look on the Key:crossing page. Could part of this longer definition be added here?

"A pedestrian crossover (also known as PXO) with or without flashing lights, requires drivers to yield the whole roadway to pedestrians. Drivers must stop and wait until pedestrians finish crossing the street. Common in Canada, always accompanied by "Stop for pedestrians" sign. Usually used around schools and on roundabouts - see definition in Ontario rule book."

But I still think this definition is not clear. Can we use crossing_ref=pxo any time there is a "Stop for pedestrian" sign (in all of Canada at least? Or is it only for Ontario?). But I note that in the USA these signs are merely informational, because motor vehicle drivers and cyclists are required to stop for pedestrians at any and all crosswalks, whether marked or unmarked. Is this not the case in Ontario? Is the difference at a "crossover" that drivers have to stop and remain stopped until pedestrians are completely across to the other sidewalk, rather than proceeding once their side of the roadway is clear? We at least need to mention what pavement markings to expect, e.g. a zebra crossing has "zebra" stripes. Do all PXO have the same type of paint even if the lights are different? --Jeisenbe (talk) 00:10, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Link to Wikipedia?

English WP has nice articles on such terms as “pelican crossing”, “puffin crossing” and “Belisha beacon”, which provide more background than fits in the table here. Would it make sense to link there? (Note to self: See Wiki_guidelines#Wikipedia_linking) SebastianHelm (talk) 04:10, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Done. SebastianHelm (talk) 09:16, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

What exactly does ‘controlled’ mean?

The text defines such crossings as a zebra crossing as “a controlled pedestrian crossing” (my emphasis). At least in the UK, for which the text is tailored, zebra crossings are not controlled by traffic signals. So what control is meant here? SebastianHelm (talk) 09:22, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

crossing=uncontrolled in Key:crossing#Approved_tags is an ever-lasting misunderstanding from Proposed features/Road crossings. This is in fact a give-way control, in the sense of traffic control together with stop and light signals. This contrasts with courtesy/"informal" crossings. There was eg Proposed features/crossing=priority trying to fix this before. ----- Kovposch (talk) 09:32, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you; this answers my question. Also interesting (in the context of Talk:Proposed features/Document pedestrian crossing hierarchy) to read IpswichMapper's considerations when explaining why they retracted the proposal. SebastianHelm (talk) 10:26, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Contradictions in page

This wiki page contains multiple contradictions reflecting the lack of consensus on this tag. Despite the warning at the top that this tag is not meant to describe crosswalk markings, and that it describes how a crossing is controlled by signals and signs, the body of the article includes an example of it being used against this guideline in Canada, and the infobox on the side says it is for describing the markings. --Bgo eiu (talk) 17:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

A brief investigation reveals that the warning was not there until about a month ago, which explains why it contradicts the rest of the page at least. Note that Key:road_marking does not actually document a method for describing the type of crossing marking, and that the tags related to crosswalks are either for describing their edges or their rectangular area, rather than the Tag:footway=crossing centerlines that are common in practice. The page for footway=crossing also recommends using crossing_ref to describe the markings style. I am going to at least add links to Proposed features/crossing=marked and Proposed features/crossing:signals to clarify that this is not really considered a settled topic. It should also mention the fact that signalization and markings are not tied so closely in every country.--Bgo eiu (talk) 18:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

maybe there is locally different usage of the tag? --Dieterdreist (talk) 18:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

There is, I've updated the page to explain more about the current status. --Bgo eiu (talk) 23:18, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Zebra with crossing=uncontrolled or crossing=marked

@Rskedgell: Hi! I read your additional tags to crossing_ref=zebra. You suggest adding crossing=uncontrolled with a zebra crossing. What about crossing=marked? The latter fits better IMHO, doesn't it? --regards, Chris2map (talk) 14:36, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Both tags are in use and need to be supported and recognised by data consumers, unless one or other is formally deprecated. However, crossing=uncontrolled and crossing:markings=* are approved and crossing=marked is from an inactive proposal. There has also been some misuse of crossing=marked at traffic signals instead of crossing=traffic_signals, which may have created some additional ambiguity. Perhaps it would be better to add a column for tags to use in combination and put all valid alternatives there?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rskedgell (talk • contribs) 16:07, 29 January 2023

Thanks for responding! I didn't watch crossings tagging for a while and thought there were efforts to use crossing=marked (at least in my region / Germany). But I see on taginfo that there are about 633k uses of crossing_ref=zebra with crossing=uncontrolled and about 140k uses with crossing=marked. The former is the more common. - Regarding the table: IMHO, main information on this page are the descriptions of the crossing_ref values. A further tag column limits the space for the description, so I wouldn't add one and keep the additional information to a minimum. Maybe even remove crossing=uncontrolled or reduce it to the key crossing=* in the table since there are also crossing=traffic_signals (91k) and crossing=zebra (9k) as possible combinations. Otherwise we have to detail it (in a separate column) and get another page for zebra tagging to keep synced. --Chris2map (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

There is a pending proposal to address the ambiguity of the crossing=* key and solve this problem: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Highway_crossing_cleanup Bxl-forever (talk) 12:53, 4 February 2023 (UTC)