Talk:Key:denomination

rites

What is the best way to indicate rites? I've given "maronite" and "melkite" as such, but what of Slovak or Hungarian rites? All four (and more, such as Syriac and Antiochean rites) are present in Montreal and it feels to me that a mere denomination=catholic, as I've used for the generic French- and English-speaking parishes in the diocese would be misleading... Circeus 23:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I think denomination=roman_catholic might be better since all churches claim to be catholic with a small c. -- Ed Avis <eda@waniasset.com>

As I understand it - denomination=hungarian_greek_catholic and similar may be used Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Diocese

An important attribute for a Roman Catholic parish is what diocese it belongs to; for instance, Saint Michael's Roman Catholic Church in Brooklyn, New York belongs to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn. In this particular instance, I've used is_in=diocese. Thoughts on the appropriateness of this usage? --Ceyockey 03:30, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Rendering of denomination jehovas_witness

This denomination does not use the cross as a symbol, a neutral/default symbol seems more appropriate.

It si true, but currently this page is not mentioning anything about rendering Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:58, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Now renders as suggested. eteb3 (talk) 17:30, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Haredi

religion=jewish, denomination=ultra_orthodox

See wikipedia:Haredi - might be better as denomination=haredi

Shared churches

What's the best way to tag a Christian church shared between two or more denominations? Are multiple denomination tags appropriate:

religion=christian

denomination=anglican

denomination=methodist

or a semicolon-separated list

religion=christian

denomination=anglican;methodist

JOSM's validator objects to the latter, by the way. Tonywalton 21:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Multiple use of same tag is currently not allowed by the system (AFAIK), so it must be semicolon=separated list --Skippern 22:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Tonywalton 08:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Nondenominational

Should probably be changed to denomination=non-denominational as that is the value that's used 85 times in the database (see taginfo). There is only one use of "nondenominational". I opened a trac ticked for JOSM as their validator only support "nondenominational" as currently written here.

Nowadays nondenominational has 500+ uses and denomination=non-denominational 15 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:59, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Subdenominations

In Germany there are several subdenominations to the denomination=evangelical.

possible values

frei-evangelisch

freikirchlich-evangelisch

evangelisch-freikirchlich

...

I will tag subdenominations with evangelical=freikirchlich-evangelisch.

--Bibodo 03:56, 13 August 2011 (BST)

Wenn es um Deutschland geht, dann informiere Dich bitte über den Unterschied von "Evangelikal" und "Evangelisch" - Er ist groß!

missionary church of kopimism

What about the missionary church of kopimism?

Don't ask. Propose and use a value.

d=church_of_sweden is unnecessary

The Church of Sweden is a lutheran church. That's why the denomination tag of it's church buildings should be lutheran!--Geogast 20:38, 10 September 2012 (BST)

Use of underscores

What is the reason for using underscores in place of spaces? I don't see that it serves any purpose. Note that I'm not proposing to change all values, but for newly used values why not use the full name, with spaces, and including proper capitalization? -- Joshdoe 01:31, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

It is a technical reason, much software (not all of it!) that can or do process the data from openstreetmap is built from general purpose (not map-specific) tools and parts which have an inherent ability to recognize "stuff_with_underscores" as a single unique item, while having more difficulty telling the difference between "stuff without underscores" and "stuff things and more stuff" . Thus whenever assigning a defined indication (as opposed to filling out a human text field such as name), there is a technical need to choose it within a restricted subset of what XML and several other systems can easily recognize. In practice this means use only lower case letters a-z, digits 0-9 and the underscore, with no two underscores after each other, no underscore at the end and the first character being a letter. Some software may cope with use of the dash/minus character and/or UPPERCASE LETTERS, but those are more problematic. So a tag like abcdefg10 works, and so does abcdefg_hijklmn_opqrstu_vwxyz; while abra-cadabbra hmm_____what or bah_ would be problematic; "guess who" or "ølergud" would be a big problem for many systems to process. Jbohmdk 01:53, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Broad and specific values

I'm a little confused about some of these values, as the granularity seems to vary from very broad to very specific. I'm interested in adding some churches that could be tagged with denomination=presbyterian, but the more specific denomination would be something like "Presbyterian Church in America" or "Orthodox Presbyterian Church". Am I to understand that denomination=presbyterian should only be used if the more specific denomination is not known? Or should I use an additional tag like presbyterian=Orthodox Presbyterian Church? -- Joshdoe 01:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

This is part and parcel of the fissiparous nature of many religious movements, with some more fissiparous than others. Generally my sense is that the map likes to keep things fairly simple, so your two presbyterian groups would probably both be denomination=presbyterian. It would be worth asking others with more tagging experience in tagging, but I wonder if denomination=presbyterian + denomination:type=Orthodox Presbyterian Church would be more in line with convention. But ultimately it must be a judgement call: mutual recognition as orthodox members of X might be one rule of thumb? eteb3 (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Romanian Orthodox Church

A new tag is needed for Romanian Orthodox Church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Orthodox_Church

I propose "romanian_orthodox". This would be along the lines of "serbian_orthodox", "russian_orthodox", etc.

Ahmadiyya

The value for Ahmadiyya is currently listed as ahmadiya, whereas ahmadiyya would make more sense and is already more common according to taginfo. I was going to edit the page to change ahmadiya to ahmadiyya, but I've realised that I would need to change the German, French, etc., versions of the page too. As I don't have much experience here, I hesitate to make a multipage edit without consultation, so I'm posting here for feedback first. -sinh (talk) 10:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea whatever this change is a good idea or not, but it is fine to edit just English page (other languages are just translations, often outdated and incomplete). Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Required tags

While denomination=* does require a religion=* tag, I would not say it requires a place of worship. Religion/denomination is frequently used e.g. for educational institutions, community centres (parish hall), and landuse=religious. Thus PoW is a useful combination, but not a requirement. --Polarbear w (talk) 14:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

landuse=religious has draft status. But I changed it. --geozeisig (talk) 14:53, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

It is fixed now Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:14, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hindu denominations

It seems that Hindu denominations have all been given in noun forms, unlike the adjectival forms for all other religions, e.g. 'anglican', 'hasidic', 'shia' in other religions, versus 'vaishnavism', 'shaivism', et.c. for Hinduism. This will lead to confusion. I suggest that they be returned to the original noun forms e.g. 'vaishnava'. I think they should also be at these original forms rather than the English 'vaishnavite', as this will translate better into other languages. If there is no opposition, I'm happy to do a global search and replace.

Not sure what you mean with global replace. If you are planning a mechanical edit of OSM data that should comply with the Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct. You should first analyse the current usage in [taginfo]. Your proposed changes should be discussed on the tagging and regional mailing lists.

I agree with the OP: that is standard religious-studies usage.eteb3 (talk) 18:03, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Denominations in Islam

I feel 'sufi' (certainly) and 'Bektashi' (probably - I don't have all requisite knowledge) are not appropriate as 'denominations': as that word is normally used it indicates doctrinal differences, whereas there is no conflict between being a Sunni (or a Shia) and being a sufi.

There are ~120 cases in the map. I can think of examples where it would be appropriate, but these are very few indeed, and I would argue either (1) for more guidance on how to apply these terms, or better (2) removing denomination=sufi from the wiki (and possibly from the map?).

I would propose discipline=* for these values that aren't really denominations. So a Sunni sufi place of worship would take religion=muslim; denomination=sunni; discipline=sufi. This could work for Christianity too: eg, religion=christian; denomination=roman_catholic; discipline=jesuit.

[Edits} eteb3 (talk) 12:14, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

I vaguely remember adding that but can't even see when in the history! I think I just was trying to be more complete, but now that I go back and read about Sufism and Islam I would agree with you that maybe it shouldn't be a denomination. Frankly aside from Sunni and Shia, I'm not sure about the others either. I think it'd be good to get input from someone well versed in Islam.

At least according to wikipedia, it seems like Bektashi is more analagous to Christian monastic orders, which use the community=* tag. In that scheme, Jesuits are community=SJ. community=* has not (yet) been used for non-Christian orders, but it might make sense to extend it?

If you feel you have the knowledge to accurately update the denomination page, go for it! With only 120 denomination=sufi, you or someone should be able to go through those individually and either retag or leave some kind of note. --Neuhausr (talk) 03:20, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

I am not an expert in Islam, but I wonder whether “alawite” should be included. 伟思礼 (talk) 18:28, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

episcopal

Episcopal is no longer “basically the North American name of the Anglican Church.” The “Anglican Church of North America” (ACNA) has been created by folks who reject some of the changes in Episcopalianism. (I am not a member of either, but have friends/relatives in both.) 伟思礼 (talk) 17:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

== After reading the cited Wikipedia article, I conclude that “Spiritist” is not a Christian denomination. 伟思礼 (talk) 17:58, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Denomination vs Organisation: classification versus name of organisation

There is a mix of how this tag is used:

1) Most commonly, it is used for the sub-category ('denomination') of a religion. The top 20 tags are all

e.g. the top religion=christian denominiations are: catholic, roman_catholic, baptist, orthodox, lutheran, anglican, protestant, methodist, russian_orthodox, greek_orthodox, evangelical, presbyterian, pentecostal, jehovahs_witness, mormon, seventh_day_adventist, reformed, etc.

Only 3 of these are mostly one "synode" or large organisation (Roman Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox) and even then there are a few separate organisations in each of those big categories: there are several Greek Orthodox churches in the USA which are self-governing, for example.

The others are all protestant or marginal categories, not individiual organisations - there are several different "mormon" churches (aka Latter Day Saints), though the one headquartered in Salt Lake City is certainly the largest. There are hundreds of "Baptist" church organisations.

The top religion=islam denominations are: sunni, shia,

The top religion=islam denominatinos are: tibetan and theravada - again large categories, not particular organisations.

The large "denomination" tags above have 1000 or more uses, with the top 10 over 10,000 uses.

2) However, if you look down the list to the rare values, there are some uses of denomination=* to tag individual church organisations, e.g.: "free_church_of_scotland" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Church_of_Scotland_(since_1900)) with 48 uses, instead of "presbyterian", and "foursquare" (68 uses) instead of "pentecostal", and "presbyterian_church_usa" instead of "presbyterian". Only about 5% or 10% of tags are used in this more specific way.

I would instead recommend using the tag operator=* for the name of the church organisation, and keep denomination=* for the larger, commonly-used category like "sunni", "presbyterian", "pentecostal", "mormon", etc. --Jeisenbe (talk) 18:09, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

(This topic is being discussed at length on the tagging mailing list: [1].) – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 18:04, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata

Does it make sense to include the tag denomination:wikidata=* in the examples? Does this bring value? BubbleGuppies (talk) 07:00, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Maybe this would allow easier translation for machine-readable use. I have for now created a github gist in json format from it: https://gist.github.com/xeruf/b40f8e782346d3eb2ef9472ac09fc51b --Xerus (talk) 16:41, 11 October 2022 (UTC)