Talk:Key:design

design=donau_inverse

I'm using this tag for the donau-type, where the wider arms are on the top with two insulators and one insulator on the bottom arms. One system in shape of a 'v'. So another possible name/symbol would be 'w' or 'vv' for two systems. Here is a good example:. 292829257 292829257 see ESRI or Bing background. --Bahnpirat (talk) 14:37, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Didn't know about such a design. Could you check if I drew the icon right? Donau: , inverse donau: . Enzet (talk) 05:33, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

The symbol is fine and fits good. I know only 3 lines with this design. All in Thuringia, Germany. More regular (but only on short distances) would be a two-level-tower with top level 2x 3-phase 110 kV, 50 Hz and the lower level would be 2x 2-phase 110 kV, 16.7 Hz to supply energy to trains. (substation=traction). The design looks the same. Thanks. --Bahnpirat (talk) 14:37, 28 September 2021 (UTC) There are also three towers in Brazil in the State of São Paulo and they have line_management = transpose with two insulators on the top on each side and one insulator on the bottom on each side, all supporting a 440 kv line. There is also a double circuit 110 kv line in Romania with two insulators on the top on each side and one insulator on the bottom on each side of each tower. There is also a double circuit 110 kv line in Kaliningrad, Russia with two insulators on the top on each side and one insulator on the bottom on each side of each tower. There is even a power line with that design in the country Georgia with two insulators on the top on each side and one insulator on the bottom on each side of each tower as a German electric pylon from war reparation. In the page (line_arrangement=*), it states that even if the line arrangements are upside down, and flipped vertically, the line arrangements would be the same.Owen C 200 (talk)

Slovak "Macka" tower and it's design

Tower design informally called "mačka" is pretty common in Slovakia (also saw few of them in the Czech Republic). It is carrying one circuit with conductors at two levels and in triangular arragment - suspension, anchor tower. How should I tag this design? design=two_level, design=triangle (conductors only at two levels) or design=y-frame (there is a horizontal cross-beam between top structures). --Chiak (talk) 16:33, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

two poles through-bolted

How to tag two poles that are bolted together and then have an arm https://westnordost.de/p/92284.jpg I don't think it counts as H frame (pi pole) because there's no gap between them but maybe that's okay. It's basically like a pole but there are two so I guess it should be power=tower? Thanks TrekClimbing (talk) 22:18, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Separating the "guyed" tag

I would suggest we move guyed to a separate tag. Simply guyed=yes. Reason being almost any tower design can use guy wire to support them if ground condition is poor or the angled tension is to great. There is already quite a few designs that start with "guyed" so it would simplify this list. Gazer75 (talk) 07:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

It's quite chaotic. The ~5k guyed=* listed on Key:design#Poles is already used on power=pole , but Proposal:Power pole extension didn't cover power=tower , causing this situation.
I support separating guyed=* from both here, and tower:construction=* , especially because both tower:construction=lattice and tower:construction=freestanding (should be tower:construction=tube instead to match tower:construction=guyed_tube in the first place) are free-standing. Furthermore, man_made=cross and natural=tree are mentioned in in Tag:man_made=guy_wire , but without such an attribute.
I suggest using support=* somehow, although that is quite messy now. Or start reinforcement=* / reinforced=* , if there is a need to show additional supporting structure outside the original thing. This allows supports other than wires to be added.
—— Kovposch (talk) 05:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Also, I notice that 'design = guyed_v-frame' is a guyed tower type that does not have a freestanding version at all which is 'design = v-frame' and all v-frames are guyed regardless. I think guyed=* was only used for poles at first because all pole designs can be self supporting unlike towers because v-frames are guyed regardless.

Monopolar vs Bi-Pole vs Monopole

Noted the inclusion of monopolar towers, however "poles" originate from HVDC, not HVAC transmission, where the circuit is called a bi-pole with apparent power flow opposite the other pole.

HVAC is based on 3 phases (conductor bundles) where the apparent power flow is in the same direction, albeit 80-degree phase-shift from the others.

For either free standing or guyed "monopolar" it may be better to rename... the 3 units mono-phase(al?), unless it is for HVDC, where there would only be 2 monopolar towers.

Which brings us to monopoles.

Monopoles are the common name of increasingly popular pylon construction in the US, replacing lattice designs of all types for freestanding applications up to 345kV dual-circuits.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/345-kv-monopole-structures--692498880208763843/

I only bring this all up, as there are many OSM editors in the UES - Unified Electric System (of Russia) who are mapping every "monopolar" tower on 500kV & 750kV circuits and separating out the phases to connect each "monopolar" tower, add attributes to the line segment, circuit:1/3 and attributes of the tower, cables:1.

They are repeating this hundreds of times across the network, creating a real visual mess.... such as seen here on OpenInfrastructureMaps... https://openinframap.org/#13.96/56.48247/38.20203 and takes a lot of effort to remove, as suggested in this wiki (one line connected to middle monopolar tower)

I see a response from Owen C 200, but can't see it either regarding tagging "poles" aka structures as tubular. But this does not address the issue at hand.. a bastardization of utility pole to mean any structure that carries wires with "pol" being further bastardized related to structures... monopolar for 3 towers carrying a single phase of a 3-phase HV Alternating Current circuit or "bipolar" also being further bastardized for a uniquely Dutch design of 2 monopoles carrying 2 HVAC circuits between them, when pol in electrical terms is reserved for Direct Current systems and more specifically 2 pole or a "bipolar" circuit with a + pole and a - pole conductor/phase/bundle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_River_DC_Transmission_System

My real issue is physical structures & designs (what we can see) are driving the process/mapping of electrical circuits which operate/function in ways we cannot see, yet mapping based on what we see is taking priority over what we can't see... how high voltage transmission actually operates (3 phases for AC or 2 poles for DC) and is mapped within the electric utility industry. --Hans Hy (talk) 13:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)