Talk:Key:maxweightrating

maxweightrating vs. maxweight

Where actually is the difference between these two? What is the benifit of maxweightrating:hgv over maxweight:hgv? --TBKMrt (talk) 20:45, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

It is a different type of restriction, a different type of sign. Literally the whole article is about explaining the difference. But please feel free to improve the article to be more clear from your perspective. One more example:

	maxweight=5.5	Vehicles that currently weigh above 5.5t are prohibited on this road.
	maxweightrating=7.5	Vehicles that are legally permitted to weigh more than 7.5t are prohibited on this road. So, this sign is a more precise way for the road traffic authority to say that "big trucks" are prohibited and has nothing to do with the vehicle's current weight.

--Westnordost (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I added this example now to the page --Westnordost (talk) 21:10, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your edit. Now the page is easier to understand. --TBKMrt (talk) 19:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Should we perhaps add examples of maxweightrating signs with additional signs (and conditional restrictions)?

On the wiki page of Conditional_restrictions you can find this example (in this state since Revision as of 22:50, 19 February 2020):

Photo	Tagging	Interpretation
	maxweight=7.5 maxweight:bus=none maxweight:conditional=none @ delivery	There is a maxweight restriction which is overruled by maxweight:bus (as this includes a more specific transportation mode) and by maxweight:conditional (a conditional restriction of the same transportation type — i.e. none specified — as maxweight=). Therefore, the maximum weight of 7.5 t applies to all vehicles except buses and those loading ('delivery').
	maxweight:hgv=7.5 maxweight:hgv:conditional=none @ delivery	Note the sign only applies to heavy goods vehicles so this could be solved this way. Also consider using maxweightrating instead of maxweight.

For me it looks like an accepted case and solution (?), although I think that the tagging with maxweight and the sentence "Also consider using maxweightrating instead of maxweight." is misleading (or even wrong), because the sign clearly shown a case of maxweightrating and not of maxweight. So I would change the text to "There is a maxweightrating restriction ..." and use maxweightrating in the tagging instead of maxweight. Or am I missing something? If not: shouldn't it be changed to avoid confusion?

My main question is:
Should we perhaps add the following two examples with the tagging (and perhaps other ones with other international signs?) to this wiki page to make it clearer for everyone how to handle cases like that?

Example No.	Sign	Tagging (based on the example of the wiki page "Conditional_restrictions")	Explanation of the sign
1		maxweightrating=7.5 maxweightrating:hgv:conditional=none @ destination	German sign which means: motor vehicles except buses and cars that are legally permitted to weigh more than 7.5t are prohibited on this road, but destination traffic is free.
2		maxweightrating:hgv:conditional = 7.5 @ (16:00-18:00)	German sign which means: motor vehicles except buses and cars that are legally permitted to weigh more than 7.5t are prohibited on this road from 16:00 to 18:00.

Second question:
Could the tagging of example 1 also be written in one line like that: maxweightrating:hgv:conditional=7.5 @ (24/7);none @ destination?
(But perhaps this will reduce readability and make it harder to understand – I don't know.)

Additional note (not very nice I think):
The key maxweightrating:hgv:conditional produces a validation error in JOSM (revision 18193): "syntax error in maxweightrating:hgv:conditional", but maxweight:hgv:conditional is accepted. This is a currently a little confusing ... Or is it an indication that this conditional tagging with maxweightrating:hgv is not 100% accepted yet or very uncommon?

--Goodidea (talk) 05:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

The tagging in the above table (maxweight=7.5 + maxweight:bus=none + maxweight:conditional=none @ delivery) is definitely wrong and should be corrected. The image shows the UK traffic sign 622.1A which is defined as "Goods vehicles exceeding the maximum gross weight indicated on the goods vehicle symbol prohibited" (see The Traffic Signs - Regulations and General Directions 2011, page 31. So, the sign is explicitly only about maxweightrating:hgv=7.5. The information on the sign that it is excluding buses is superfluous.

The same with your second example / suggestion basically. This is only for goods vehicles / trucks, it's maxweightrating:hgv=7.5. Regarding the conditional that resolves to "none". No idea, to be honest. But I guess such things should be explained on the conditional restrictions wiki page (and discussed on the talk page there). A brief look at the conditional restrictions wiki page looks like chaining the conditionals with a semicolon is correct. --Westnordost (talk) 09:25, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the combination of both conditions in the conditional value, I would still expect to have a maxweightrating tag as a fallback (not only the conditional one) and at this point, duplicating the "standard" (non conditional) restriction seems superfluous. Regarding the vehicle class to which the maxweightrating sign applies: this depends on the country. In Germany, the maxweightrating is for all motor vehicles except buses and cars. --Dieterdreist (talk) 11:58, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

It is true that it depends on the country. It is wrong that the sign that depicts a goods vehicle applies to all vehicles. Zeichen 253 – Verbot für Kraftfahrzeuge mit einem zulässigen Gesamtgewicht über 2,8 t (später 3,5 t), einschließlich ihrer Anhänger, und Zugmaschinen, ausgenommen Personenkraftwagen und Kraftomnibusse.. So, it applies for "all motor vehicles EXCEPT cars and buses". So, de-facto, only goods vehicles, as there are only these classes of vehicles. Well, if we want to count peas, the sign would apply to motorcycles with a MGW above 3.5 tonnes as well but this is unreal and certainly not intentional by the lawmaker. --Westnordost (talk) 12:11, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention, I have fixed it now. Regarding the German definition, it depends on your definition for goods vehicle (or hgv). If you go by European vehicle classes, those for the transportation of goods are in class "N", while there are also the classes T and C for drawing vehicles and there are all kinds of things that can be drawn ("O", "S") whose maxweightrating is eventually combined with the one of the drawing vehicle? --Dieterdreist (talk) 12:28, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

For definitions of vehicle classes used for German street signs, one would of course need to look at the definition of a goods vehicle in German law. Had a quick look:

"Kraftomnibusse sind Kraftfahrzeuge zur Personenbeförderung mit mehr als acht Sitzplätzen außer dem Fahrersitz." (StVZO § 30d (1))

I didn't find the definitions of the other classes, but I didn't put so much time into this now --Westnordost (talk) 12:48, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

there is no “goods” vehicle in the German law on traffic. —Dieterdreist (talk) 21:17, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

ah, thanks. That explains the circumscription for the Zeichen 253 --Westnordost (talk)