Talk:Key:pihatie

English

Has anyone considered more generic tag name such as no_access:signed=yes that would be usable also elsewhere? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the question! Since the underlying point of Freedom to Roam laws is common to most Nordic countries, there might be motivation to use this type of tag also elsewhere, at least in the Nordic countries. I did post a topic on the Swedish section of OSM Forum asking just this (in Swedish, see here https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=70862) but it did not receive immediate praise or interest. In fact I was succintly and straight away told that there was no use for such a tag in Sweden. The Swedish section of OSM Forums is not very busy though. Perhaps someone could try to ask the Swedes again about this e.g. on Facebook (I have not sold my soul to the Zuckerborg so I cannot do this myself).

A few points might make this type of tag unusable elsewhere though:

1. The Freedom to Roam laws are in my understanding an exception in the world. The point is that almost throughout the world 'private' roads are considered nontrespassable by default. Therefore in most places, signs like 'Private' or 'No trespassing' do carry the force of law (and thus the normal access-restricting tags can be used without a problem). The FtR laws turn all this upside down. All roads are usable by default in the Nordic countries, and the few exceptions to this are mentioned explicitly in law (e.g. roads on the courtyards of homes and semi-detached houses, military grounds, walled industrial properties, etc.).
2. Even in Finland, prior to 2003 some municipal laws and orders did assing these signs some legal significance. In 2003 these municipal orders and laws were overturned and even roads containing these sings were made available to everyone. In fact, most Finns do not know that the signs do not carry the force of law, and as mentioned in the wiki page, there is still some disagreement between legal experts as to the exact legal status of these signs. The linked pamphlet by the Ministry of the Environment does make it clear that the signs do not carry the force of law, though.

The pihatie tag is thus used to communicate a non legally binding wish. It's a strange situation indeed! And perhaps therefore (in fact, hopefully) strictly peculiar to Finland only. --Tolstoi21 (talk) 16:35, 20 January 2021 (UTC)