Talk:Key:real ale
Wiki confusion (real ale != craft beer, taprooms)
There is some confusion in the Wiki. In some places (though not on this page) it is suggested that real ale (cask ale) is the same as craft beer, so anywhere that serves craft beer should be tagged real_ale=yes. This is a misunderstanding: there is some overlap but not all craft beer is real ale (e.g. Sierra Nevada), and not all real ale is craft (e.g. Doom Bar). For tagging the availability of craft beer I would suggest drink:craft_beer=*. The wiki also suggests that places that serve real ale are "also known as taprooms". This is also incorrect. In the UK, where the term real ale originated, a taproom is most often a pub in a brewery (or operated by a brewery) where you can drink their beer. It's similar to a brewpub: you could say that a brewpub is a pub with a brewery, while a taproom is a pub in, or run by a brewery. Usually mapped as a separate amenity=pub inside a craft=brewery or industrial=brewery. Of course, the beer from that brewery may not be real ale, therefore not every taproom serves real ale. Let me know if you have any comments / questions, otherwise I will edit the page in a couple of weeks to clear up this confusion. Also, does anyone know who operates the Lithuanian craft beer map (https://craftbeer.openmap.lt)? It looks like it relies on the real_ale=* key. Pinging @Hugoren Martinako:, @Aurimas: Osmuser63783 (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation. The misunderstanding comes from this tagging list discussion, where I was suggested to use real_ale=* as Lithuania does. There's no issue to change into drink:craft_beer=*, it was just about using an identifying tag. I can take care of the Spain/Portugal, as many of them were done by me (even I did a maproulette challenge for that). --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Just for clarification, I consider a taproom a pub like Beermoth or BrewDog (you may see photos in gmaps), am I wrong? Unlike Germany/eastern europe where is more common microbrewery=yes, taprooms don't brew at the premises, and they sell beer from another providers also (craft beer, though). One key difference: regular spanish pubs don't use to serve more than 3 beers on tap (industrial lager usually), however, taprooms are focused on smaller local providers, offering 6+ taps min. --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding the Lithuanian craft beer map, in the list's thread you can contact the user introduced it. --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! That BrewDog bar wouldn't be called a taproom in the UK. BrewDog does have taprooms (called DogTaps, here is an example). Here are more examples of taprooms (Google Maps has pictures): 1, 2). They're rooms inside breweries, often in industrial areas, where you can drink their beers. Unlike BrewDog the other three breweries are small, but big enough that the beer they sell in the taproom is only some of the beer they sell overall, you can also find it in pubs in the area and in shops (in cans or bottles). So this is a bit different from a pub that brews its own beer which you can't find anywhere else (what might be called a brewpub). And the beer could be real ale or not. Anyway, I can see that someone on the mailing list said the kind of craft beer bar that you describe would be called a taproom in Colorado, US. So it seems the word taproom has different meanings in different English speaking countries, and a tag like taproom=yes or a rule like "if it's a taproom then tag it XYZ" would probably lead to confusion.. Do you think brewery=various drink:craft_beer=yes captures it? By the way you might enjoy this article about BrewDog: It also explains the difference between craft beer and real ale quite well, and how they're associated with different decades and different groups of beer drinkers. Osmuser63783 (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Hmmm, interesting: every place you pointed out, I would tag them simply as craft=brewery, or maybe microbrewery=yes :D (e.g. this, see photos). One thing I noticed is they're located usually in industrial areas, rather than downtown (what implies smaller premises). Therefore, what I use to call taproom you'd call it just craft beer bar, wouldn't you? --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 13:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding the tagging: I disagree using brewery=various (as you can see in this other discussion) since that barely says nothing. I rather say only drink:craft_beer=yes for these craft beer bars; IMHO, now the drink:*=* scheme is good enough. What do you think? Once we reach an agreement, we can update the wikis and apply the changes on the map. --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 13:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- After reading the article, I understood the Camra thing better (let's say a sort of trademark with specifications, as the Kobe beef, for instance). So I see the differences and we may proceed with the tag renaming. --Hugoren Martinako (talk) 13:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! That BrewDog bar wouldn't be called a taproom in the UK. BrewDog does have taprooms (called DogTaps, here is an example). Here are more examples of taprooms (Google Maps has pictures): 1, 2). They're rooms inside breweries, often in industrial areas, where you can drink their beers. Unlike BrewDog the other three breweries are small, but big enough that the beer they sell in the taproom is only some of the beer they sell overall, you can also find it in pubs in the area and in shops (in cans or bottles). So this is a bit different from a pub that brews its own beer which you can't find anywhere else (what might be called a brewpub). And the beer could be real ale or not. Anyway, I can see that someone on the mailing list said the kind of craft beer bar that you describe would be called a taproom in Colorado, US. So it seems the word taproom has different meanings in different English speaking countries, and a tag like taproom=yes or a rule like "if it's a taproom then tag it XYZ" would probably lead to confusion.. Do you think brewery=various drink:craft_beer=yes captures it? By the way you might enjoy this article about BrewDog: It also explains the difference between craft beer and real ale quite well, and how they're associated with different decades and different groups of beer drinkers. Osmuser63783 (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Sounds good. I can take care of the English wiki if you do the Spanish one :-) Osmuser63783 (talk) 07:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)