Talk:Key:socket:*

Swiss sockets

I started mapping EV charging stations in Switzerland. There are 4 types of sockets which are only used in Switzerland (T13, T15, T23, T25; defined in SEV 1011). Up to now, I tagged them with socket:ch_t13. Should we keep this naming scheme or should we use something like socket:sev1011_t13? More information about SEV 1011 is available on Wikipedia. --Zagch (talk) 15:35, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I'd vote for socket:sev1011_t13. --Geonick (talk) 21:38, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I went ahead and used/documented socket:sev1011_*. --Zagch (talk) 14:58, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

The SEV 1011 standard is now called SN 441011 (since 2019). Should this have an impact on mapping? --DaniloB (talk) 11:26, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Tethered plugs

A key difference between sites offering EV charging is if a socket is offered and you are expected to bring your own cable, or if a cable (typically tethered) with a plug is available that can be plugged into an EV charge socket. This tag is used to describe the properties of the charging station, not the vehicle, so there should arguably be an alternate key name of 'plug'. --Pink Duck (talk) 15:58, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Read also Talk:Tag:amenity=charging station#charging cable availability

--Pyrog (talk) 18:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

NEMA 6-20p

This plug type is supported by some level 2 EVSE such as one here: https://duosidaevchargers.com/ so would be useful to list

socket:<type>:voltage

Would be useful, since not all charge stations with the same socket type provide the same voltage, and some charging stations provide a different voltage through different sockets (especially if the station offers both level2 and level3 charging).

socket:gb/t 20234

This is a Chinesse socket, but it is not yet in the list of sockets. Can I use this socket liket this?

Adding new sockets is no problem. But we should take care that keys don't use any special characters (no spaces or slashes, mostly lower case letters). I don't know all details about the Chinese sockets, but I found some pages referring to this connector as "GB/T" without a number - is this sufficient to identify it? If yes, I propose to use "socket:gbt". If not, "socket:gbt_20234". Mueschel (talk) 08:04, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

'How to map' section

This tag is a pre-tag and is only used in conjunction with a sub-tag. This makes it possible to use several values simultaneously.

What on earth does that mean?! Could a worked example be provided, especially as terms like 'pre-tag' and 'sub-tag' seem to be poorly defined in OSM? Thanks! :-) eteb3 (talk) 11:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Essentially it just says that the tag "socket" should not be used (this is necessary to state because the page is titled "Key:socket"). Only in combination with a socket type like "socket:type2" it makes a valid tag. But you are absolutely right, this statement should be clarified and made easier to understand. --Mueschel (talk) 11:09, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks - I've incorporated your explanation into the page. I feel this makes it possible to use several values simultaneously is still unclear. Also, would it be possible to give generic syntax? eg, it's not clear currently what the values of the tag are (I mean the 'v' side of k=v): the page appears to describe only the 'k' side of the equation. eteb3 (talk) 17:01, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

The page really needs a bit more text, it is very concise. The values are only described in the first table: --Mueschel (talk) 17:21, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Value: Count of available sockets, integral numeric. 	
Description: A count of the sockets of the specified type that can be used concurrently at that charging station.

Thanks. Last question - I assume the 'charging station' is an electric vehicle charging station, to charge the batteries. Always? Not necessarily? Could the same tags be used at a 'mains hook-up' giving shore-power for a boat? eg this https://www.tmpmarine.com/dockside-electric/power-pedestals-mini-boxes-accessories/marina-electrical-equipment/commodore-ss-power-pedestal-models-cd50200-cd100200.html eteb3 (talk) 17:27, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

It's not really the right place to discuss this, better ask in the forums or the mailing list. But yes, the tag is not restricted to cars. Just add which vehicles are allowed to charge, e.g. car=no; bicycle=yes; boat=yes --Mueschel (talk) 17:37, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Should units be included, e.g. kW, A?

Over half of the current features with socket:<type>:output have a value which includes kilowatts: kW, e.g. 22 kW or 50kw? Is this recommended? Should a space be used between the number and kW or not?

Also for socket:<type>:current sometimes A for Amperes is added, with or without a space. Is this necessary? --Jeisenbe (talk) 15:28, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I'd treat this like any other value with units (e.g. length and speed) - there is a default unit (kW and A), but you can add the unit as well to make the value less ambiguous or to use alternate units. The official rule is that there is a space between number and unit, and we should stick with official capitalization, i.e. not use 'kw'. --Mueschel (talk) 11:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Problematic to add items with limited information available

This tag definition has several problems. Requiring the socket type (which is really object information) in the main tag key makes it impossible to visualize all sockets on a map, regardless of type. There is no socket:*=* type of query available, and doing a substring query on the key is very expensive.

A second problem is this tagging requires a lot of detail to even add the base tag. No option is offered for situations where either the specifics of the socket type, or the number of sockets is unknown. I have added socket:unknown=*, socket:domestic=* and the value yes to allow adding sockets even when missing some details. But really the formulation of this tag is problematic. It would be like having to add roads with a convoluted tag highway:<type> = <number of lanes>, this is not following the OSM tagging standards.

Also, this tag left no room for adding sockets that can accept multiple types of plugs in the same socket. I have added the socket:multiple=* tag for this.

--Pbb (talk) 21:51, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

How do these new keys helps in mapping? If you know that there is an "domestic" socket (whatever the definition is), why can't you add the specific socket type? If you don't know the socket type, just don't add this tag. Use 'socket' for the total number and leave the rest to somebody who can identify the socket. --Mueschel (talk) 11:08, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion to rename type1_combo and type2_combo socket types

The type1_combo and type2_combo DC charging socket types are more widely known among users under the names "CCS1" and "CCS2" respectively, so I would like to suggest that consideration be given to using names ccs1 and ccs2 be used instead. These names a both more concise, and less likely to lead to confusion with the distinct type1 and type2 AC charging sockets. --Cafz (talk) 11:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I second this. "ccs1" and "ccs2" are the terms used, sometimes "ccs type 1" or "ccs type 2" but never "type1 combo" or "type2 combo". -- Chuq (talk) 10:07, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree, I was also surprised about the "type2_combo" naming. What would be the process to change this? It would require a mass-edit of existing stations, right? --DaniloB (talk) 22:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Such a change requires a discussion on the tagging mailing list and a proposal. The amount of changes necessary would be huge - editor presets, applications that make use of the data and so on. Also, the Wikipedia article on CCS uses the term "combo" many times. It's not as uncommon as you suggest. --Mueschel (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

socket:tesla_destination is superfluous

This socket type is superfluous, and shouldn't be used. As described in the table, it is either equivalent to tesla_standard (in the US) or type2 (in EU/AU). There are currently 48 nodes using this key. --Cafz (talk) 11:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Some more thoughts on this: Yes, "tesla_destination" and "tesla_standard" are the same. But it is not the same as "type2" in EU/AU. The socket is the same, but Tesla destination chargers often only work with Teslas (some may work with some vehicles, but they're not intended to or supported). They are not an open "type2" standard despite the plug being the same shape. You could have "tesla_destination_us" or "tesla_destination_eu" plug types, but it seems a bit superfluous, since as a general rule every "tesla_destination" socket in a given country is going to be the same. If you wanted to get technical, you could label a Tesla destination charger in EU/AU/etc socket:type2_cable with access:restricted or authentication:vehicle, but that would not be how users of these stations would find or describe them. -- Chuq (talk) 10:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

lower power device charging

As socket is also used to tag mobile phone etc. chargers (on "smart benches", in airports, cafes etc.) like socket:device:USB-A and similar in amenity=device_charging_station, it would be good to document those keys. Does anybody have objections? Also, some mobiles have wireless "sockets" for charging, like Qi

It should be socket:usb-a / usb-b / usb-c / qi without 'device' according to the existing scheme socket:<type>=<number>. The namespace "device" brings no advantage and only restricts the use unnecessarily. What if you can also charge e-bikes or e-scooters via USB? The use for small devices is already sufficiently described by the main tag 'amenity=device_charging_station'. Tags should also preferably be written in lower case. OSMRogerWilco (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't see a reason to change the existing keys with the "device" subkey. If there is a wish to change them, then that should be proposed first. Also, these tags should not be lower-case - acronyms that are part of a key are (and should be) written in their common form, i.e. "USB". --Mueschel (talk) 16:23, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Country names necessary?

I think the latest addition of country names to the socket types makes the table very long and much harder to read. Is this really necessary? I mean, some of the connectors are used in about one half of the world, and the list will never be complete. For local connector varieties the 1-3 countries are already named in the description column. Mueschel (talk) 07:28, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

The idea is to attempt to document which car charging socket is used in each country. The listing could likely be made more efficient. This is going towards another project within the OSM sphere to help document the world. I'm not sure I'd say that the list will "never be complete"; just takes information and those willing to bring it to the masses. --Sparks (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

If there is a need or wish to have this information in the OSM Wiki, I think it should be in a separate table, e.g. a matrix correlating sockets with countries. On the other hand, the OSM wiki is a very "special" place and the number of potential users would be a lot higher if the table was in Wikipedia or Wikidata. --Mueschel (talk) 19:01, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

tesla_supercharger_ccs

This is described as a proprietary Tesla connector, but to me this looks 100% like a regular CCS (type2_combo) connector. Can this section be removed? --DaniloB (talk) 15:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

There are only 21 nodes and 2 ways labelled with this tag (according to taginfo: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/socket:tesla_supercharger_ccs), so I will now remove the entry from the wiki page. --DaniloB (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, the correct tag is type2_combo, as for the other CCS chargers from other brands.--NKA (talk) 22:18, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

type2

I encountered type2 charger labelled as "AC~" in Poland - see photo at https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/903#issuecomment-1005771138

Is it yet another name? Or is it referring to alternating current? Or to something else?

Not sure should it be listed as one more name of that socket

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 15:18, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

You actually identified it correctly, it's a "Type 2" (socket:type2_cable) connector, which uses AC (alternating current). It is mainly labelled this way because Tesla has a somewhat proprietary connector that also uses Type2, but with DC. However, those should be clearly labelled with "Tesla" or similar. --DaniloB (talk) 15:48, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I also edited it a bit, I think that it should now be clear what is going on Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

tesla_supercharger and type2 - how to distinguish?

Is it possible to distinguish between tesla_supercharger and type2 plugs? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 15:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Tesla chargers (which also use Type2 plugs) will usually be labelled with "Tesla" or "DC". If not, it will be a regular/standard Type2 charging port with alternating current (AC). --DaniloB (talk) 15:49, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I added a note to the "tesla_supercharger" description, do you think this is clear now? --DaniloB (talk) 15:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I also edited it a bit, I think that it should now be more clear Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

type2_cable status

"Attention: This tag is brand-new and not discussed in detail. Most charging stations with a Type 2 cable are tagged socket:type2. "

Has anyone tried discussing this wider community to reach agreement whether this tag should be used or not?

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:33, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm not aware of anything. From what I know, users of cars with Type2 connectors will not care about the difference, but users of cars with a Type1 connector will: There are Type2<->Type1 adapter cables, and those will only work with a Type2 socket, not a plug. However, I think Type 1 is somewhat obsolete and I'm not sure if this should be sufficient reason to make the tagging scheme more complex. (So far I've always tried to properly tag these two variants.) I'll start a discussion on the tags mailing list about this. --DaniloB (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

It may also matter to EV users with type2 connectors that do not carry a Type2 cable. These users can only use public chargers that have a tethered cable --Shonkylogic (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

How about Perilex

Not sure if there is a different name for the Perilex-Connector or if it is missing in the list --Mfbehrens99 (talk) 23:09, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

We don't have it in the list yet. If we add it we should maybe use perilex_16A and perilex_25A to distinguish the two types. But: Are there any places where such a connector is provided for public use? --Mueschel (talk) 07:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Pantograph

Do we have a tag for sockets built into a gantry, which are used by vehicles with a pantograph? For example, electric bus/truck chargers. socket:pantograph=* ? --Kylenz 08:42, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Lol no? It's not a "socket"? Extending this for wireless charging is already somewhat of a stretch.
Rigid overhead conductor rail is something I had in mind for drafting Proposed_features/Transit_energy_source_details#Electrification. You should differentiate station and depot charging for the feature, in case you are considering amenity=charging_station.
Whatever you use, it should get access=private, bus=private, etc.
Catenary lines being tested on roads for trucks is another potential use case. Kovposch (talk) 10:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Okay, how would you tag a gantry like this at a random suburban bus stop, far from the depot? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but "Overhead conductor rail" seems to imply a long rail instead of a single point. They are connected to a street cabinet which looks just like any other charging station. --Kylenz 22:06, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I should explain clearer. My motivation is standardization with railway, where it is long enough to be a line, and doesn't have to be a point. Of course it is not the same. If you look closely at your example, you can see contact strips on the charger mast. However, the reverse can exist, with charger-mounted inverted pantograph touching a vehicle roof shell-mounted contact strip upside-down . The more common design using contact rails. Using socket:pantograph=* for charger-mounted pantograph has a somewhat conflicting meaning, when the charger is more like a "plug".
Fundamentally, I'm not sure you should use amenity=charging_station for these. It may overlap with a public_transport=stop_position or highway=bus_stop, depending how you define its position. Usage is another reason, as buses don't stop there with charging as their main purpose. If this is decided to be used, opportunity / on-route charging needs to be distinguished from depot charging.
In general, there is a problem in how to show individual connectors. For amenity=charging_station, it is the individual posts and sockets inside. For amenity=fuel, it is the fuel pumps inside the station, complicated by an iD preset of the same name for vending=fuel. Concerning electric sockets, I tend towards looking into power=outlet, to solve the ambiguity of power_supply=yes together.
One more question: If an interchange or terminus have these chargers, does it make sense to add amenity=charging_station to the amenity=bus_station (conflicting val in the syntax}} / public_transport=station???
--- Kovposch (talk) 08:30, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

To address this, the charging station should preferably be mapped on its own instead of as an extra tag on the bus stop node. In large cities, public transport stops are rarely a single node anyway, e.g. shelters, waste baskets or stop position nodes are often mapped as individual objects and joined through a public_transport=stop_area relation. Bxl-forever (talk) 11:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@Kylenz:, I have to contradict what @Kovposch: said. IMO "socket:*" is a tag to describe how one can connect to a power source, not necessarily for sockets only. The term "pantograph" seems a bit too generic - there are different types in use. The image you show is specified as SAE J3105-2. There's already one "socket:J3105-1" (another kind) in the database. So I suggest to use "socket:J3105-2" here. --Mueschel (talk) 17:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

the value cee_blue has limitations

single phase ceeform sockets are tagged as socket:cee_blue=* right now, but there are actually three different sizes. See this image for an example. This makes it impossible to tag a node that has two different types of blue ceeform sockets.

Since cee_red is already split into multiple tags for each size, maybe we should do the same for cee_blue?

I see one example in taginfo for socket:cee_blue_32a=* so far...

--Kylenz 07:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, we should document these different sizes and recommend to use a specific tag. --Mueschel (talk) 17:37, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

socket:<type>:output

How to map then there are more then one size charger.

socket:type2_combo=24
socket:type2_combo:output=350 kW;200kW

or

socket:type2_combo=14
socket:type2_combo_1=8
socket:type2_combo:output=350 kW
socket:type2_combo:output_1=200 kW

I suggest not to use several numbered tags. We can combine them in one similar to your first example, but specifying how many sockets of which size there are:

socket:type2_combo=14;8

socket:type2_combo:output=350 kW;200kW

--Mueschel (talk) 17:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

add EU+EEA symbols (letter in hexagons) to table

Since 3/2021, charging points + cars + cables in European Union and European Economic Area carry a symbol to visualize compatibility (directive 2014/94/EU). These symbols are probaly the most easy and reliable way to tell apart different socket types – especially for mappers that are not familiar with electric vehicles, i.e. have no practical experience. Could please someone who is knowledgable with this add it to the wiki page? An also the name/id of that standard? First source of information is https://www.fuel-identifiers.eu/ Thank you, --Schoschi (talk) 14:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

@Schoschi: As far as I see it

• B type1
• C on black type2_cable
• C on white type2
• D type3a
• E type3c
• K L chademo
• M N type2_combo
• O no idea - tables say "type 2a" and "DC 50-500V" which I can't relate to any connector

--Mueschel (talk) 18:18, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mueschel: Thank you for adding the keys assignments here and in the page's table :-) Two questions:

1. B, D and E are not yet in the page's table. Is this just out of lacking time or icon, so e.g. I could/should do it, or is it because it does not yet make sense to add, e.g. lacking confidence in the assignment, or non-matching definitions in OSM and the EU directive?
2. In the page's table, K L is at type2_combo, and M N at chademo, so it is inverse to the list here...

--Schoschi (talk) 13:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I think I made a mistake writing the list here and the one in the table should be correct - but better cross check with the definitions. I didn't add B,D and E because I don't expect them to appear anywhere on a larger scale - let me know if I'm wrong and I'll add them. --Mueschel (talk) 12:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)