Talk:Organised Editing/Activities/Amazon

Please check the employee list, users jangah and vkkalegi don't exist. User 5359 (talk) 15:51, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi User 5359, jangah is not an editor of Amazon Logistics. vkkalegi is our editor and had saved the name as 'V'kkalegi. I have made the corrections to the page.

Lots of content missing

This page misses a lot of content regarding the Organised_Editing_Guidelines. How and when is it gonna updated? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I take the complete responsibility to keep the page updated with information.-- jguthula

So, how about adding some more information about:
* the review process
* the actual edits performed (like what tags are used etc.)
* the "ground source" and how this source and its date is added to the changeset --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

What did you do the last year? --Skyper (talk)

As you can see in the page history, I have made changes in the last one year regarding the private imagery sources we use for mapping and also on the user list who left the organisation or newly joined our team. -- jguthula

So the banner was and is not a problem and that a lot of content, regarding the guidelines, is missing, neither? --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Communication

• Where is the open channel for communication? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

"osm-edit-escalations@amazon.com" is the open channel for all communications. -- jguthula

Sorry, but a "private" email address is not an open channel in my eyes. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Did not find the archive where can I find it? --Skyper (talk)

We don't have an open archive of this email communication. Happy to share the archives if there is a possible way publicly --jguthula

One option would be a public mailing list with archive. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• Why are you not checking the forum for problems regarding your edits and take part in the discussion? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

We are responding to all forum discussions within 24hrs unless it is a weekend or a holiday since 2019. In 2018, we were not aware of such platforms so didn't participate in discussion, but post inputs from forum, we are regularly engaging in discussions.--jguthula

This is just a lie, I had to point you to the discussion and it took almost 48 hours. Who can I trust your words?

I find and handful discussions about problem with you employees' edits without any comment. Just take a look at yours employees' changeset without an answer to proof you wrong. --Skyper (talk)

The forum post don't have a mechanism to notify us similar to changeset comments. We do pro-actively check forum discussion and respond when we come across any but if there is a way to notify us, that would be really helpful. We do receive a min of 5 to 10 changeset comments every week and we respond to them immediately. Some of the community members also confirmed this in the forum discussion (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=70481). There are certain edge cases where we missed responding to changesets, but that is purely because of technical issues like missing email notifications. --jguthula

Please, tell me, does your company not have the money to pay a person to watch the forum or implement a solution?

I do not see your active response of cs comments in the date. Yes, it might be a little different since last week but some cs are unanswered and a lot are not really answered, as they miss answers to a lot of questions. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• How do you communicate with the community --Skyper (talk) 11:25, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

We do communicate via changeset discussions, Forum discussions or "osm-edit-escalations@amazon.com" mail discussions. --jguthula

• Where are the official apologizes for breaking your own rules and our rules? --Skyper (talk) 11:25, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
  • How am I informed about your progress in fixing issue regarding your system? --Skyper (talk) 11:25, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Apologies if something went really wrong due to our edits. But apart from the changeset https://osmcha.org/changesets/86907142/ none of the changesets commented had a data error. Having top-notch data quality is our first rule of thumb because this data is also used by our delivery partners who might end up into accidents if a wrong information is added.--jguthula

As mentioned earlier, every query should get a response within 24hrs with an update on actual resolution apart from weekends or holidays. At edge case scenario when the notification system fail we might end up missing the response. --jguthula

What happens if not? Why did I have to block a user and it took over 24hr after the block to get a response? --Skyper (talk)

In this particular case, the editor had an issue in his mailbox where the OSM notifications were not popping. Post the editor block, we were able to identify the root cause and fix the issue. This is an edge case scenario and had never come across such issues in the last 1 year. --jguthula

This can be easily tested and seems to be not an single issue. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Update and responsibility

• How is this page kept up to date ? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• Who is responsible for the content? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I personally update it if any new developments happen. jguthula

So, you had no changes in employees since the middle of May? --Skyper (talk)

No, we didn't recruit anyone new since May 2019. In the last two months we recruited couple of new editors who are yet to start editing. Once the editing starts, we will add them to wiki as well. --jguthula

As per you inputs, I have made changes to the wiki with the usernames of editors under training as well. --jguthula

So you train on live data? At least this edits should be flagged as "review needed" and be commented by your reviewer, just like a regular, new user should use this option to get some feedback. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Second level review

• If all edits need review, why are they not mark with the tag? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't get this question. Which tag are you talking about? --jguthula

You need some intelligence to google "request review osm"! --Skyper (talk)

I don't think all edits need review. We do add thousands of edits to OSM everyday and community also members complement them to be very good and off high quality. But in case, if our editor was in doubt of making the edit, they do mark it for "request review OSM" or drop a note instead of making the edit. --jguthula

But on this page it is written that "all edits are reviewed". Why do you do this then?

Where do you get the information about your "very good and off high quality" edits from? I do not really find it anywhere as these edits mean a road is added with detail information like lit=*, surface=*, lanes=*, maxspeed=*, sidewalk=* and proper access restrictions for all transportation modes. Additional routing errors should be prevented by adding the proper barrier=*.

Please, do not set edits from volunteers on the same level as changes made by "paid" persons with all the company support, and available instructions and guidelines, plus, hopefully, additional reviewed training sessions in advance. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• How does this review work? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

If an edit is made today, the immediate next day the changeset gets cross verified for the following inputs:

1. If the nodes are connected appropriately to parent road or not

2. Did the editor check all the latest available resources in OSM

3. Did editors delete any previously added community information wrongly

4. Is the edit made following all OSM wiki guidelines

Basically in second level check we do a re-audit of complete edit and take a call. If in case the editor made a mistake, we ask him to make corrections accordingly within next 24hrs. --jguthula

How do you know the correct date of each tile of the imagery? I am really interested cause I do not get it from most sources?

If the area did not change the latest is often of bad quality. Where is the check for the best quality? You need more than only one imagery to approve many changes.

Why are missing sources not commented? The OSM wiki guidelines include that you follow your rules and the rules of the OSMF. Why do the reviewer not react if e.g. source are only imageries but access tags are changed? --Skyper (talk)

Our editors compare all the imagery sources available to take the call from the changes identified. Post identification of changes editors start verifying the date of satellite imagery to finalise the edit. The data sources used while editing were automatically captured by ID editor as a part of imageries_used tag in changeset. But in certain cases we have identified, iD editor failing to capture the complete resource list. This happens only in few cases, so we limited ourself to verify if there is a data error with respect to editing and not concentrate too much on the added resources. Also, when there is a gate that is visible from satellite imagery we do mark that road as private. Again this has been a request from community members and we agreed to the request only if the gate is clearly visible. Otherwise we limit our edit to just adding the missing road. --jguthula

Wow, this is quite a lot of verifying and aligning of imageries for only adding one or two service roads in one area and than taking off to another region or even task. Is it not more productive to have one user work on one region and cover an area of some road blocks in one cs?

With all these alignments, do you use an Imagery Offset Database. Would you mind to make it public if it is available?

Imagery is not a "ground source"! see below.

I still did not get how you know the exact date of an imagery tile from e.g. Maxar or Esri. Would you, please, share this information that OSM globally can profit from it, thanks. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• Why do I not find comments from the reviewer on every changeset? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Our internal audit comments were not posted as changeset comments. Do you think it is a good idea for same organisation to have public discussion? --jguthula

If it is about the edit, why not? Something like "Nice job, well done" will do.

If the edit needs to be criticized, I want to see the critics from the reviewer on the cs. How do I know that the reviewer already did the job without a comment? The user can than post the link to the update CS in a comment, too. That is open and transparent. --Skyper (talk)

We don't post comments publicly because, there is no tool available to separate our internal team comments and external community members comments. This can lead to confusion and miss the response SLA to community members. Thanks for the feedback, will explore opportunities on how we can make it more transparent. --jguthula

• Why do I not find comments from the reviewer on changeset which do not follow your own rules? --Skyper (talk) 17:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Can you give specific examples on when they didn't follow the own rules? --jguthula

How about the ground source issue? Every one of your employees should know your rules, e.g. every editor did break it and every reviewer did break it as the source is missing in the cs. Why do I not find comments on changesets which did approve to be vandalism? --Skyper (talk)

As mentioned earlier, every ground source used by our editors is automatically captured by the iD editor as a part of imagery_used tag in changeset. This is a feature of iD editor itself and there is nothing different our team needs to capture. But there are certain instances where iD editor failed to capture the ground sources used. We are trying the identify the root cause of the issue. Once identified, will cut a tooling improvement github ticket to iD developers. --jguthula

Again, imagery is not a "Ground source". Ground sources are GPX and correlated photos both with date plus the knowledge of the locality, known as source "Survey" in OSM.

At least Maps4BW is missing as an available source in edits in BaWü. But you need to know how to interpret the source. All is written in the wiki but better use the German pages with more information.

Guess there are more cases in other regions of Germany. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Start of Organised Edit

If find edits of your employees way before 2018. When did you start with the organised edit? Why are you not telling the truth? --Skyper (talk) 19:11, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

We tried to find the edit history from our editors and identified it to be started from 2018. I don't think there is any reason to hide the start date. From the beginning, the only intention of Amazon was to share the information we had that can benefit the larger OSM community and work towards the betterment of OSM. --jguthula

How about not deleting content but updating. A simple sentence like "we were editing in ... from ... to is enough. --Skyper (talk)

Thanks for the feedback, I will find the information and update the wiki accordingly --jguthula

Sources

Where are the links to the sources you use? They have to be made available. --Skyper (talk) 19:11, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

We only use the publicly available OSM resources. There were only two instances where we used private information, but that too well discussed with the community members and taken a call. Please refer to the following discussions for more context: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/post.ph … &tid=68933 --jguthula

No words about imagery there. I am talking about this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/87709980 --Skyper (talk)

In this particular changeset, the editor missed adding the source as a part of the changeset, so he added it as the changeset comment. Is there anything else missing from his end? --jguthula

"Amazon Combined Imagery" is not mentioned at all on your wiki page.

Where is the link to it?

How can I use this source? --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Private edits

How are private edits marked differently than paid edits? Is it not safer to use two different accounts? --Skyper (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

I didn't get the question, can you please elaborate. --jguthula

Are you kidding me. Do you know the content of your own wiki page? How about this paragraph: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ama … rojects.3F --Skyper (talk)

HOT is also a part of OSM. How are these edits going to be different? Also when we connected with HOT teams, they told us we can continue using the same usernames to map for HOT projects as well. I don't see any requirement for creating two different accounts as in our perspective, in both scenarios we are trying to improve missing data in OSM. --jguthula

• Are these private edits or also "paid" edits?
• Are both task part of the same Amazon project?
  • Is the same review mechanism used?

Using one account for private and "paid" edits is not a good idea. --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

#MapWithAI

How can these edits made by Amazon be differentiated from edits made by persons of other companies with the same source? Where is the needed identification within in the CS that these edits are made by amazon employees? --Skyper (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

As mentioned above, once the #hashtag is implemented, will make sure to add it as a part of the comment to make it different from other edits. --jguthula

So are you waiting for the solution and did you stop all your editors, as now, you can not say that you did not know. --Skyper (talk)

We are working on the solution and taking a goal to implement this by 09/11 --jguthula

JOSM search term

Where is the search term? Content missing? --Skyper (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

What is this search term. Didn't get your query. --jguthula

Do you want to fool me ? Just search for "search term" on the page. Is it really too difficult? --Skyper (talk)

That statement was added/contributed by another community member in our wiki page. Not sure of what search team he was talking about. Since it was a community members addition, didn't remove it from the wiki. --jguthula

How about contacting the member and asking about it? --Skyper (talk) 12:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

German version

Hi, I miss a German version of this page. As you can not expect every local mapper in Germany to understand English, would you please tell me, when I will be able to read about your mapping actions in German. Thanks --Skyper (talk) 12:43, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Will discuss with our internal team and get it implemented. --jguthula

Arabic version

Hi, I miss an Arabic version of this page. As you can not expect every local mapper in the UEA to understand English, would you please tell me, when I will be able to read about your mapping actions in Arabic. Thanks --Skyper (talk) 12:45, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Will discuss with our internal team and get it implemented. --jguthula

RapidID or RapiD ?

the wiki said RapidID, it's RapiD ? Marc marc (talk) 21:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it is RapiD. Made the correction in the main content. Thanks for your suggestion Marc. jguthula 08:10, 27 October 2020 (IST)

Collection and Documentation of Editing Mistakes

I started collecting editing mistakes by Amazon employees in order to document and identify systematic issues. Feel free to add your findings. --Nakaner (talk) 11:37, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Update on India mapping

I have recently seen some edits by new members of Amazon Organized Editing team member for example nitman (on osm, edits, contrib, heatmap, chngset com.). The member list on the wiki page does not have this member. Can User:Jguthula or others responsible for India mapping provide a summary of the activity done so far? Thanks.--Arjunaraoc (talk) 10:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)