Proposal talk:Addr:milestone
Metric units
The proposal states "For use with the Metric System, we would type in the abbreviated form of the word kilometer by entering a capitalized K," This is incorrect. It may be what is on the signs, it may be common usage when writing addresses, but in the metric system the "K" should not be capitalized. The correct abbreviation for kilometres is "km" not "Km" and elsewhere in OSM "km" is used. --Brian de Ford (talk) 12:53, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
- I believe this is fixed with the updated proposal. --Matheusgomesms (talk) 10:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Metric units or label painting?
The proposal now states "For use with the Metric System, we would type in the symbol for the word kilometer by entering a lowercase k, followed by an m and then a period, space and the number indicating the kilometers on the address: “km. ##”." Periods are not used after abbreviations in the metric system, and the abbreviation follows the number rather than preceding it. I now realize specifying the address using the metric system is a bad idea and that we should be "painting the label."
If we're using the metric system then an address "Km 20" should be entered as "20 km". This is problematic for two reasons:
- It's not what is on the sign. A tourist looking for the address "20 km" may not realize that the sign will show "Km 20".
- Mileposts may be renumbered as per the milepost equation, so an address at Km 20 may not be 20 km along the route. Specifying this as what appears to be a distance is misleading.
Solution: drop the idea that this is part of the metric system and go with "painting the label." If the address is "Km 20" (or "K 20") what should be entered is "Km 20" (or "K 20") and any connection to the metric system is purely coincidental. The same goes for addresses where the mileposts are based on miles (or any other unit): paint the label. --Brian de Ford (talk) 14:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
I do think the solution of "painting the label" makes perfect sense here. This is already the expectation with addresses more generally; countries where the state/province is expected to be abbreviated on the address fill out that tag accordingly instead of going with the "no abbreviations" rule since it makes the address easier to deliver in those cases. The least surprising option here is the one that looks like it's actually written. Bgo eiu (talk) 15:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Corrected kilometer symbol
Thank you for pointing this out.
I stand corrected and have already changed this particular issue on my proposal.
And to go a bit further with your point, the km is not even an abbreviation, but an internationally known symbol used for the word ‘kilometer’.
And from what I have now found out, the abbreviation for ‘kilometer’ in English or ‘kilometre’ in British English is k, but this does not apply to this topic.
As for your suggested solution, this actually seems to be true since over time roads tend to change their routes and the road markers become more of a ”reference sign“, than an actual highway distance marker.
I find this to be a good and honest approach for the addresses containing the km symbol.
- Speaking as a native British English speaker with a twenty-two year career in seabed mapping and subsea pipeline/structure inspection I can safely say that in British English the abbreviation k simply means "1000" ('kilo' from the Greek χίλιοι, meaning 'thousand') - as in any other language stating the SI system of units and measures - and the abbreviation km is the correct abbreviation/SI unit notation for kilometre in that language. In subsea pipeline construction and inspection we have a milestone-like reference from a known point (usually the pipeline end flange at the initiation end) known as "the KP" or "kilometre post" but we still use "km" for straightforward reference to actual kilometres. --John Grubb (talk) 20:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
- "k" on itself simply means "kilo". This only makes sense in "kp" as mentioned (on roads as well), the common "kph" abbreviation (vis-a-vis mph), or any other non-standard units (eg VKT) . -- Kovposch (talk) 14:22, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Interactive Discussion in Community Forum
While I fully support to make this official, I'd like an open discussion on the topic on the Community Forum. Would you be willing to create one in https://community.openstreetmap.org/? It's so to refine the final details.
-- The author created this page: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/rfc-feature-proposal-addr-milestone/121295 -- Matheusgomesms (talk) 10:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
This needs re-work
Milestone addresses are not always literal distances. They might instead be relative distances ("milestone 20.1" would be a tenth of a mile past milestone 20, not literally 20.1 miles from the beginning of the highway) or historical distances (20.1 miles from where the highway used to start or 20.1 miles along the route the highway used to take). This needs to be re-written to acknowledge that the value of "addr:milestone=" is simply what it says on the sign, not an actual measure of distance. --Carnildo (talk) 06:24, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Examples of full written address
Could you add some examples, what the actual written full address looks like? There is already one example in the picture but a few more would be helpful. In particular, please add examples for the case where there is an addr:milestone and an addr:housenumber. Bonus points, if you can get real world examples from different countries to confirm that the proposal is globally applicable. Lonvia (talk) 10:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
-- santamariense provided several examples back in 2019: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-October/048501.html Some websites were updated, but this one provides several addresses, with both milestone and housenumber: https://lisalog.com.br/contato-com-empresa-de-logistica-integrada/ From Taginfo, it seems it is very applied in Latin America and southern Europe countries (although we know Taginfo does not represent full world, especially for a tag that was not formally approved yet. -- Matheusgomesms (talk) 10:33, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
-- Here is an example of use in Brazil: Santamariense (talk) 17:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
