Talk:Tag:emergency=suction point

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Robkoch (talk • contribs) 22. February 2015

Intro

Hello, my name is Robert and I'm the author of OsmHydrant, an easy-to-use OSM-editor for fire water facilities (i.e. fire hydrants, water tanks and suction points). I wanted to grab some opinions upon emergency=suction_point vs emergency=fire_hydrant + fire_hydrant:type=suction_point.

As I'm writing this, there are 1020 nodes of fire_hydrant:type=suction_point, mostly used by the Polish community.

In contrast, there are 1165 nodes of emergency=suction_point, mostly used in Germany as well as by my fire-water-facility editor OsmHydrant

I think the OSM community should find consensus upon which tag to use.

Definition

A suction point is a preferred place to get fire water like shown in this picture: suction point

At such places there are no prepared connectors where you just connect like on a fire hydrant, but they are prepared or suitable locations to place fire pumps. Suction points may be prepared at rivers, lakes, ponds and underground water-tanks.

Related stuff

When searching for fire water facilities (besides suction points) there are not only fire hydrants, but also water tanks and fire water ponds.

But a fire hydrant can be connected to a water system, a tank or a pond. It's simply not the same thing and the emergency=fire_hydrant objects should be qualified with their source. Fanfouer (talk) 15:50, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Static Water Supply

In Australia the term 'Static Water Supply' (SWS) is used to signify water sources that can be used by fire fighters. These typically are backyard swimming pools, dams and rain water tanks but can include air conditioning cooling tower water. Fire fighters would like to know the location and volume of these supplies, see https://www.mtwilson.com.au/mt-wilson-mt-irvine-rural-fire-brigade/water-supplies-and-fire-trails/mt-wilson-and-mt-irvine-static-water-supply as an example.

Some properties are legally required to provide SWS, a guide is https://www.aquamate.com.au/rural-water-tanks/state-based-water-storage-requirements-for-bushfire-prone-areas/. It would be good to be able to tag these in OSM. I have come across a statement that satellite imagery has been used to find backyard swimming pools for fire fighters, I think that was not in Australia. Warin61 (talk) 23:49, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Pro & Contra

(+) means in favor of, (-) states a contra for this tagging concept.

emergency=suction_point

• (+) as there are also emergency=fire_water_pond and emergency=water_tank for fire water stuff, a more specific tag for prepared places to place your fire pump suits better than using emergency=fire_hydrant for a node which is not a fire hydrant.

emergency=fire_hydrant + fire_hydrant:type=suction_point

• (-) a suction point has got no connector, all other fire hydrant types got one

Then it's not a fire hydrant and emergency=suction_point should be used Fanfouer (talk) 15:55, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

• (+) you only need to query for emergency=fire_hydrant when you're searching for fire water (besides water tanks, but they might not be always usable) and somehow they belong together

+1 for query but the sentence should be you only need to query for emergency=fire_hydrant when you're looking for connectible water sources. A water tank, pond or suction points may not be built with hose or connectors.

Anybody looking for suction_point will have to bring the appropriate material (like pumps, pipes or whatever) to deal with it Fanfouer (talk) 15:55, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

In Australia a 'Static Water Supply' tank should have a Storz connection. Storz connections were standardised around the country when it was found that fire fighters crossing state boundaries did not have the right fitting to connect to water supplies. Other 'Static Water Supplies' are dams, swimming pools etc. Warin61 (talk) 00:06, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

In that case, emergency=fire_hydrant + fire_hydrant:type=suction_point is correct. --Nospam2005 (talk) 17:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Goal

We should find consensus to avoid going two directions for the same thing. Having one way of tagging suction-points would also ease future work.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Robkoch (talk • contribs) 22. February 2015

Discussion

You should start a discussion at the regarding Mailing lists/Forums to reach some mappers. IMHO this place is least likely to be found. After a consensus more or less is reached you should announce a mechanical edit before you change one of the tags. Sorry that it sounds a little complicated and tedious, but that's the way it is supposed to go. -- malenki 19:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)