Talk:Tag:historic=pound

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Pound vs. pinfold/ penfold

When this page was created, several sites in England were already mapped as historic=pinfold. As a non-native speaker, when choosing a tagging scheme, I relied on established usage on maps (1st edition, 25inch Ordnance Survey and British War office maps[1] in the Republic of Ireland as well as National Monuments Service Ireland[2]) which all use "Pound", so this is what I chose. It was then pointed out that "pinfold" was also used in England. At the moment, I'm still trying to find out what the difference is, if there is one. Wikimedia (Category:Pinfolds and Category:Village pounds, but the description of some images sometimes "contradicts" the category.) and Wikidata (Q4764963) use both interchangeably, it seems.

The Schools' Collection on duchas.ie has no entry for "pinfold"[3], but several for "pound"[4] relating to the meaning used here.

Collins Dictionary distinguishes them by what animal is kept in them, i.e. pinfold for cattle and sheep[5] and pound for cats & dogs[6]. This leaves no room (in the inn) for geese, ducks, goats, pigs and horses.

(Btw, the word pinfold, according to Collins Dictionary, is derived from Old English pundfald, i.e. pound + fold[7].

Historic England uses both terms in their database, and I have written to them on 2024-01-11 for clarification. As an "asset type", they only list "pound", though: List of all 268 listed pounds on historicengland.co.uk This would suggest that they use "pound" to describe the sites. The individual sites may be called " [village name] Pinfold" or "[village name] (Village) Pound". B-unicycling (talk) 17:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

After adding a lot more and running a colour-coded overpass-turbo query, it seems quite obvious that the difference is a regional one. B-unicycling (talk) 02:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Heritage England have replied and said "we regard them as different names for the same concept which, in our Thesaurus of Monument Types, we describe as ‘A pen, often circular and stone-walled, for rounding up livestock.’"
It was strange that nothing came up for Scotland, but they do exist there, an AI search gave me 3 examples, and Canmore has 7 listed in the classification "Pound"[8]. They have no "pinfold" category. B-unicycling (talk) 01:22, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
I'm also trying to understand if there's really a difference between Wikimedia Commons categories Commons-logo.svg Village pounds, Commons-logo.svg Pinfolds, and Commons-logo.svg Town pounds, other than the latter one seems to be more about New England rather than England, and which if any the Wikidata [W]animal pound (Q4764963) really refers to. I'm inclined to just try to consolidate them all, but I don't want to be too bold if I'm not understanding the actual situation. I've Commons-logo.svg opened a discussion on the Wikimedia Commons side of things on if these should be recategorized somehow. --PeterCooperJr (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ↑ All made by British authorities, of course.
  2. ↑ Which only has four in their database, to be fair.
  3. ↑ https://duchas.ie/en/cbes/stories?SearchText=pinfold&SearchLanguage=ga&Page=1&PerPage=20
  4. ↑ search term "pound" with filter topic "local lore, place lore" which might still include the odd use as the currency
  5. ↑ pinfold at Collins Dictionary, accessed 2024-01-11
  6. ↑ pound, definition 4 in Collins Dictionary, accessed 2024-01-11
  7. ↑ pinfold at Collins Dictionary, accessed 2024-01-11
  8. ↑ Search on canmore.org.uk, just to show the classification. Don't copy locations! Accessed 2024-01-19.
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