Talk:Tag:landcover=gravel
"It does not stand by itself as this tag does. The depreciation is incorrect." - can you link some examples of object where landcover=gravel would be correct and standalone surface=gravel is a bad idea? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:26, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
- I can't think of anything. We map real, current features in OSM, not satellite imagery, so there's no situation where one could say "landcover=gravel" but couldn't instead use "surface=gravel" + a real feature like beach, scree, shingle, parking, highway, runway, desert, riverbed, etc. - but I've edited the deprecation notice to imply that it's preferred to use a feature tag with surface=gravel --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:22, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
"Scree and shingle are formed by the action of nature"
Text just added: "Note: scree and shingle are formed by the action of nature, and are described as such in OSM. Where gravel has been placed by man these should not be used and are not suitable substitutes. Possible misuse of the tag landuse=gravel may come from the lack of a suitable OSM wiki page."
The proceeding two descriptions of natural=scree and natural=shingle mention that scree is "areas of loose angular rock fragments formed by rockfall and weathering" and shingle is "rounded rock fragments on a beach or riverbed, deposited and shaped by movement of water" - these are based on the descriptions on the linked wiki pages for the two tags. I believe these descriptions make it clear that scree and shingle are usually "formed by the action of nature". However, if there is an area of rounded pebbles next to a restored stream, and the pebbles were actually brought in as part of the restoration project, I believe it would be appropriate to use the tag natural=shingle, because the area would appear the same as a patch of shingle which was deposited without human intervention, and because the rounded pebbles were originally formed by the action of water. I think it is a mistake to claim that these features are "formed by the action of nature" - the rock fragments or rounded stones are certainly formed by nature, but this does not mean that there was never any human intervention in their current placement.
Also I see no benefit to adding the sentence "possible misuse of the tag landuse=gravel may come from the lack of a suitable OSM wiki page" - this appear to be speculation, and doesn't add useful information. --Jeisenbe (talk) 23:59, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
- And if gravel is placed in areas where scree or shingle would not naturally occur? If the surface tag is to be used in these situations then why not use it for shingle and scree? Warin61 (talk) 00:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- I agree that natural=scree and natural=shingle shouldn't be used for a patch of rounded stones in a Japanese tea garden or a patch of gravel in a park, but I have not yet seen this happen. My concern is that pedantic mappers may be reluctant to use natural=shingle for a "rounded rock fragments on a beach or riverbed" if the riverbed was "restored" by using heavy equipment to move the stones around at one point - while I'd still consider this "natural" some mappers have the idea that "natural" means "wilderness" or "untouched by humans". --Jeisenbe (talk) 00:24, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- I think it is why the key natural is a poor choice. Much better to use a key that has no implication of 'natural' or not. Why I support the keys landcover and landform - says what they are with no other implication. And there are those who want to indicate 'natural' but are unable to do so, I am not one of them. For more confusion see http://www.50northspatial.org/map-nature-openstreetmap-approaches-issues-key-tags/ Warin61 (talk) 01:39, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Speculation
- It is also speculation to assume that all landcover=gravel can be substituted by scree, shingle or surface. At least this 'speculation' has the word 'may'. Warin61 (talk) 00:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- I cannot recall using this tag myself, too many edits? But I would speculate that somewhere in this large world there are some where the substitution would not work. You can search as well as I using Overpass Turbo .. some are replaceable by surface=gravel, but not all. Warin61 (talk) 08:42, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
- Once someone finds such case it can be added to already existing list that is covering vast majority of cases (maybe all of them) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
- I cannot recall using this tag myself, too many edits? But I would speculate that somewhere in this large world there are some where the substitution would not work. You can search as well as I using Overpass Turbo .. some are replaceable by surface=gravel, but not all. Warin61 (talk) 08:42, 10 September 2019 (UTC)