Talk:WikiProject Haiti/Status/Hospitals

Like many other pages in the WikiProject Haiti the Hospitals (i.e. the health facilities) page should be refreshed now that we are not in the quake response mode anymore. Most Important additions that I can think of are

Documenting better what has been done (during and after the quake reponse; including the mapping work related to cholera reponse)
Figuring out how to tackle the duplicates problems as well as setting up some sort of mechanism for verifying entries (that at least the name, location and operational status of the hospital / health facility has been verified, including the data when)
Integrating with other efforts, perhaps most importantly, the MSPP's Carte Sanitaire project (http://j.mp/cartesanitaire). Also UN agencies / others (including NGO work).

Anything else? Some of the above are already listed below. A cleanup would be the first(?) step? --JaakkoH 15:34, 22 October 2011 (BST)

This page should be retired and/or merged in favor of WikiProject Haiti/Status/Hospital/Report. --Ceyockey 13:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's how this could look like:

Gubaer 16:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

It would be useful to have an indication of the degree of confidence in location for the Hospital. There are a couple of levels which are currently in the data:

Sahana says it is here (suggested source=Sahana Foundation; source_ref=hospital details page; element=node)
Sahana location coincides with a suspiciously "hospital looking" building (element=node → element=way[building])
Sahana location coincides with MINUSTAH data (source=MINUSTAH GIS and UN Cartographic Section; source=Sahana Foundation → source:[specific field]=Sahana Foundation)
Location established with Sahana+MINUSTAH data corroborated by non-free source (e.g. website for hospital or related organizational website) (url=xxxx)
Location verified by ground truth (source=survey)

I am putting this out there as a suggestion on what fields to include / recode in the Hospital Report to provide a confidence scale value to track progress and reliability against.

--Ceyockey 21:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sahana-related meta-data

Suggested revisions for tags associated with Sahana-derived data:

source=http://haiti.sahanafoundation.org/prod/hms/hospital → source=Sahana Foundation; source_ref=http://haiti.sahanafoundation.org/prod/hms/hospital/# (#=Hospital #)
sahana_id=# (#=Hospital #) → ref:sahana_id=#
sahana:name=lorem ipsum → name=lorem ipsum; source:name=Sahana Foundation
sahana:address=lorem ipsum → addr:street=xyzzy; addr:housenumber=##; source:addr=Sahana Foundation or addr:full=lorem impus; source:addr=Sahana Foundation
sahana:phone_business=##### → phone=#####; source:phone=Sahana Foundation

I've made these suggestions so that the Sahana data might better match the current standards related at pages accessible from below:

phone=*
name=*
ref=*
source=*
addr=* and Proposed features/House numbers/Karlsruhe Schema

--Ceyockey 01:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Scope

I would suggest not limiting the scope to Sahana data, but expanding to encompass all hospitals in Haiti. --Ceyockey 02:35, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Temporary medical clinics

I've been looking through the tags in use and have not found a good tag for handling a temporary medical clinic.

one suggestion (already in use) → amenity=clinic OSMdoc
a better suggestion (I think) → amenity=field_hospital no OSMdoc value
a second possibility → amenity=field_clinic no OSMdoc value
- respective definitions of clinic and field hospital in Wiktionary
there is probably not a need to explicitly designate a clinic as permanent vs. temporary. However, start_date=* and end_date=* should be used if these are known; a note or description should indicate whether the dates are proposed or historical.

I've checked at Humanitarian OSM Tags and they appear not to be considering this particular issue there at this time.

--Ceyockey 03:23, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Problems with data in the PAHO/WHO dataset

facility 4210044 in OUANAMINTHE: the location is slightly off. The hospital is mapped as building in OSM, based on hi-res Worldbank imagery. The correct location is best represented by this way. --Gubaer 18:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
facility 1320029 in THOMAZEAU: location is clearly off. Probably a few hundered meters west. Based on imagery from GeoEye. Imported anyway, here's the OSM object. --Gubaer 18:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
facility 1119020 unlikely at this position. But there is an already mapped hospital close by. Uploaded facility 1119020 anyway.
facility 9130166 and 9139001 look like duplicates. Uploaded both, though. --Gubaer 16:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
position of facility 3449003 is probably wrong. At this position Sahana reported the facility to be and in satellite imagery we clearly see a large building. Position should be updated in teh master list. --Gubaer 19:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

post-import problems - how to flag

Should fixme=* be added if we find something potentially wrong with a facility's location? See, for instance, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/631565607 . --Ceyockey 00:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, good idea, we can then run a query and create report with the fixmes such that PAHO can correct the data. --Gubaer 09:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

PAHO/WHO hospitals master list

I have been looking over the PAHO site and have not identified the primary source for the hospitals master index. Could a link to the original data source (or instructions of how to get to it) be added to the page? This is important for maintaining reproducibility. --Ceyockey 14:59, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It is already there, see this section. --Gubaer 18:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I see it now. Thanks -- just missed it. --Ceyockey 16:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Searching for an individual hospital by name

Could instructions as to how to find an individual hospital by name be added to the page, please? Thanks. --Ceyockey 15:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I've added a section in the main page --Gubaer 20:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I thought those were the answers ... I am a novice at using the Xapi, though. Also, will the names appear in Nominatum at some time, so that a search for a hospital name would be accessible from there? --Ceyockey 16:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Suspected duplicate PAHO entries and data from outside PAHO

Question: Given a datasource which speaks to a specific hospital which happens to be in a 'suspected duplication' relation, where should the additional information go? Suggested Answer: On the relation; if duplicates are resolved, the additional information will be carried into the surviving object.

Example: relation 403840, which has three potential duplicate objects any of which might map to the "Hôpital Justinien" entry in the CDC/USAID PMTCT Baseline dataset.

--Ceyockey 01:00, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Rendering

Does this mean that consequently we had maybe better use *really* "ad-hoc" tagging in Haiti then, and use "amenity=hospital" for health centers dispensaries (in addition to the current semantically precise tags), to have them rendered on the map shown on www.openstreetmap.org ? (A bit like what was done for the displaced persons camps.)

The other two maps are (at least) 3 clicks away from this front page. And people not familiar with OSM, or looking for a health facility in an emergency case, might have difficulties finding them.

To quote from a recent private mail on a related subject: "I'm not a tech and can't figure out that OpenStreets think. I go there see a bunch of links and nothing is meaninful to me"...

There was thread on talk-ht about this issue. --Gubaer 09:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

This note was posterior to that thread and raising a potentially serious problem not satisfactorily answered there. Is there any objection to carrying out this ad-hoc tagging, to make Haiti medical facilities directly visible on www.openstreetmap.org ? (Map users can use the name information to categorize the facility. But only if they *know* that there is something there) -- jgc 2010-02-10 17:10 (UTC)

There's just one principle in the way: don't tag for renderers, adjust the renderers to visualize well-designed tag sets. We didn't adhere to it at the beginning of the crisis (that's why IDP camp sites have been and are tagged as tourism=camp_site) but we shouldn't violate it any longer. I don't know a lot about the PAHO classification but I assume that a dispensary in their terminology isn't a amenity=pharmacy and a "CAL" isn't a amenity=hospital. I think that these priorities still make sense. --Gubaer 17:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

In order for the different health_facility types to make sense we both need definitions for them and an understanding of what source(s) provide sufficient information to apply something more than the generic 'amenity=hospital' to. Further, should think more broadly than Haiti utility alone, which might require compromises. --Ceyockey 10:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The "meaning" (semantics) of these types is supposed to be defined in the Humanitarian Data Model, for which there is mapping to the PAHO data model already. Meta-data from PAHO isn't very verbose about the "meaning" of these types, but from the short descriptions of abbreviations like "C/S" we can infer the intented semantics. --Gubaer 10:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Import task status

Over at WikiProject_Haiti/Tasks_and_Ideas#Mapping_Tasks there is a mention of needing to have help in importing hospitals. Should this task be moved to the completed pile now? --Ceyockey 12:24, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think we can remove the task, although it isn't completed yet. The first import is done and I'm currently working to get the import of v3 working. In contrast to the v1-import there isn't a pile of tasks which could be distributed to other mappers. At least not yet. --Gubaer 23:54, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Mars and Kline Psychiatric Center

I think it would be good to see if the "Mars and Kline Psychiatric Center" can be mapped. This is mentioned in ...

Sontag, Deborah (Port-au-Prince, Haiti, 19 March 2010). "In Haiti, Mental Health System Is in Collapse". The New York Times (Americas).

Thanks for considering this. --Ceyockey 23:08, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

General Hospital

Same consideration as "Mars and Kline" above. Noted in the article as being "nearby" to Mars and Kline. --Ceyockey 23:15, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Défilé de Beudet in Croix-des-Bouquets

The same as noted above for "Mars and Kline Psychiatric Center". --Ceyockey 23:12, 20 March 2010 (UTC)