User talk:Ilis

Кругликов Илья

Именование

Привет. JFYI: у нас тут принято называть статьи всё-таки с префиксом RU, чтобы можно было следить за правками. Поэтому я переименую обратно Свердловская область в RU:Свердловская область. GranD 08:30, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

official_name

Could you explain what is "official_name" and the difference with "name" ? Because, in my opinion, "name" is 'the official name', no ?. --Pieren 13:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I just added the key from Key:name page. But not only for this reason. "official_name" is very useful tag for for many government institutions like libraries. Many of such objects have very long official name to use in every day life as well as to be nicely rendered on the map. So these names are either shortened by ommiting meaningless words or abbreviated.

I. e. Library in Yekaterinburg, Russia, named "Библиотека им. Белинского" (Belinski Library). This is most used name for it and name shown on the library building. But there is another name, "Свердловская областная универсальная научная библиотека им. В. Г. Белинского" (V.G. Belinski memorial Sverdlovsk Regional Universal Scientific Library), which appears in official documents and on a board at the entrance to the library. This is not alternative name, this is the same name, but fully qualified. Short alternative name is "Белинка" (Belinka)

So, tags will be like

• name=Библиотека им. Белинского
• name:en=Belinski Library
• official_name=Свердловская областная универсальная научная библиотека им. В. Г. Белинского
• official_name:en=V.G. Belinski memorial Sverdlovsk Regional Universal Scientific Library
• alt_name=Белинка

Another examples are:

• name=Kew Gardens
• official_name=Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
• name=BBC Scotland Headquarters
• official_name=British Broadcasting Corporation Scotland Headquarters

--Ilis 06:19, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Normally, the tag name is the fully "qualified name" and loc_name, alt_name, short_name, whatever for the other forms. But even more important, you should explaine a minimum the meaning of this tag on the wiki and not just add it in the list. The risk is very high that it will be misinterpreted by newbies or other contributors as they will bypass the main tag "name". -- Pieren 11:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the tag name is fully qualified and official in some countries, but in Russia, at least, the real official names are like in example above. There is a huge obvious difference in Russia between commonly used names and official names. The latter is often (almost always) extensively long. We use tag name as a commonly used name for objects. In Russian section there are no needed explanation for difference between this tags on one hand, another hand I can not clearly explain this difference in English because my English is so bad (and in most cases in America or Europe official names are identical commonly used names). You can help me do that using examples and my explanations above :-) --Ilis 18:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=8654504 -- maybe this is good example? --Ilis 18:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

As I understand you, the problem is the fact that in Russia you use the normal name-tag for nat_name/loc_name/alt_name and therefore don't have an appropriate tag for the official, long name, which is - at least in Western Europe as far as I know - normally put in the standard name tag. So I disapprove official_name since the problem is elsewhere: the correct usage of name tags. even if the differences between commonly used names and official names is huge (happens everywhere, not only in Russia!), you should use the name tag for the official name and e.g. nat_name or loc_name for the commonly used one, since this is some sort of common sense in most parts of the "OSM world". It should then be the task of rendering/navigation software to display the suitable name in a given country (e.g. if official names aren't used in everyday life). I see your issue with commonly used names vs. long unhandy official names, but I don't see why there is a need for a special solution since in other countries this issue is handled without problems. --Marc 11:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

official_name used worldwide in ways, represented countries. See example above ("Mexico" and "United Mexican States"). I call for help user neutron to explain it on your talk page --Ilis 10:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Marc, please see User_talk:Pieren#official_name --Ilis 11:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)