Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Jun 21 2012

HOT Chat on June 21st 2012

Topics

• camp roberts tasks
• river mapping
• members survey

IRC log:

23:56 skorasaurus: is there an agenda for the chat ?
23:59 : The topic for #hot is: Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
00:00 : Thursday, 21 June 2012
00:00 harry-wood: skorasaurus: What would you suggest for the agenda if there was? :-)
00:01 harry-wood: time for HOT chat now hey?
00:01 wonderchook: these things have vague agendas
00:01 wonderchook: I suggested topics in my email
00:01 wonderchook: but they were mere suggestions
00:03 harry-wood: I was just thinking about analysis tools. Something to help us get a view of what editing happened
00:03 : pnorman [~pnorman@d154-5-168-48.bchsia.telus.net] entered the room.
00:03 skorasaurus: well, I haven't paid much attention to the developments of the tasking server, but as I look at the issues list for it on github, a couple questions I had regarding it were answered there.
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00:04 wonderchook: yeah harry-wood: the analysis I did for Haiti was helped by Ian Dees
00:04 harry-wood: right yeah. was just about to ask you
00:04 wonderchook: I've done some analysis for Indonesia I used osmosis with the simple_pg schema
00:04 wonderchook: Ian made me a sqlite database, not sure what he did
00:04 wonderchook: but the osmosis way was pretty simple as well
00:04 skorasaurus: [hiding completed tasks]
00:05 harry-wood: hmm. number of users involved in editing is the thing we're interested in
00:05 harry-wood: not immediately available from the API
00:05 wonderchook: skorasaurus: I think that is for admins
00:05 wonderchook: yeah so for number editing I would bound the query by date and area
00:07 harry-wood: easy if you only look at users making the most recent edit
00:08 harry-wood: it's also fairly easy if you're setting something up in advance to consume the diffs. But looking back… is more difficult
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00:08 harry-wood: (difficult to do without hammering the API with stupid numbers of requests)
00:08 harry-wood: but I wondering if it *would* be too many requests
00:08 wonderchook: yeah, I guess what I mean is I tend to just go with an "estimate"
00:11 harry-wood: For the purposes of something to say in a blog post we don't need anything too fancy it's true
00:11 harry-wood: (I'm thinking about blogging about the refugee camp mapping)
00:12 wonderchook: yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated
00:12 wonderchook: the other blog posts just used the tasking stats
00:14 wonderchook: so in other news pierzen and I are going to this in a week and a half: http://www.understandrisk.org/ur/
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00:17 harry-wood: This job is the main one with lots of work remaining by the looks http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/40
00:17 harry-wood: which is strange because it's at the top of the list
00:17 wonderchook: could maybe draw people to it through the blog post?
00:18 harry-wood: Ah that's capetown conference hey? pierzen going? cool
00:18 skorasaurus: ah, I had mistakenly assumed that they were all done after the last blog post.
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00:18 harry-wood: no no. bit more to do there
00:18 wonderchook: skorasaurus: that is good feedback to know, maybe others did too
00:19 harry-wood: I'm going to blog again to update on what needs doing
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00:21 harry-wood: I was chatting with MapAction man Ian Holt earlier today
00:21 wonderchook: cool
00:22 wonderchook: some of their crew was in Jakarta recently
00:22 wonderchook: I was not at the same time
00:22 harry-wood: He's going to be visiting DC soon. He was asking me who he might meet-up with there
00:22 harry-wood: Is Schuyler in DC still?
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00:23 harry-wood: ooh lost you there for second wonderchook
00:24 harry-wood: D'you know if Schuyler is in DC still?
00:24 wonderchook: I did not know Schuyler was in DC since the meeting
00:24 pierzen: Hi, an unofficial task I am working on, is the Niger river between Taboye and Gao. New Bing imagery lets trace islands, riverbanks and residential areas. It move from a huge lake to something like a delta.
00:24 pierzen: see http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.5996&lon=-0.1719&zoom=12&layers=M
00:25 wonderchook: nice pierzen!
00:25 pierzen: compare with mapquest wich is not updated.
00:25 harry-wood: oh yeah. the new bing imagery
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00:25 pierzen: I find a lot of residential areas.
00:26 harry-wood: much of Mali come available?
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00:26 pierzen: not yet. mostly from Tombouctou to Gao along the Niger river.
00:27 wonderchook: I did a request for imagery of Mali, but haven't heard back
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00:28 pierzen: These island are farmlands all under water at the time when the Bing imagery was taken.
00:30 harry-wood: hmmm. yeah shifting rivers is a bit awkward
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00:33 harry-wood: Riving mapping is fun though
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00:33 harry-wood: done a bit of that in india
00:34 harry-wood: And in Colombia
00:34 pierzen: tropical climate is very different then other areas. A lot of questions arize when mapping.
00:34 pierzen: arise.
00:34 harry-wood: Some places still have some super jaggedy PGS coastline data as the only data for large rivers
00:34 skorasaurus: whether it's flood season or not during the imagery
00:35 skorasaurus: I'm unsure of how to do that [mapping the dry riverbeds..] is there a tag for that ?
00:35 pierzen: I dont think so.
00:35 harry-wood: I wrote the tag documentation here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Driverbank#Varying_water_level_river
00:36 harry-wood: it gets a bit vague when it comes to flood levels
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00:36 pierzen: it would be good also to indicate how to tag the islands.
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00:37 harry-wood: well that's higher up on that page
00:38 skorasaurus: I see that mapping areas that are flooded each year is still up for discussion.
00:38 harry-wood: yes absolutely
00:39 harry-wood: I mean it's all open for discussion really, but that's a point which should be discussed and then clarified further ideally
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00:39 pierzen: For these islands, we would need a tag to indicate that they are flooded at rainy season.
00:39 skorasaurus: the talk page for it riverbank ?
00:40 harry-wood: "unless perhaps they are flood as often as every year, such that nothing gets built there" …. I just wrote that, thinking of a rule off the top of my head.
00:40 harry-wood: but it's a bit imprecise
00:41 pierzen: Also large portions of the riverbank are flooded. And you will see white spots on the islands that correspond to dry space where people are living.
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00:41 skorasaurus: flooding every year......" that was occurring in Senegal where I was mapping a couple weeks ago [as a part of the HOT mission there]
00:42 pierzen: Same conditions, yes.
00:45 harry-wood: So d'you think there's a lot of mapping work to do on Niger in Mali still? worth getting more people involved?
00:45 pierzen: HOH Yes
00:45 pierzen: But we dont have new imagery everywhere.
00:46 pierzen: I just started to look at NGA names. I think I will be able to add many placenames.
00:48 harry-wood: hah! bloody great upside-down OSM logo in Mali: http://ant.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=20.62928094246793&lon=2.1753906250000066&zoom=5
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00:50 pierzen: they had fun. Just at the bottom of the loop is the niger river. The vertical green area correspond to the Niger from Tombouctou to Gao.
00:51 skorasaurus: how does that work ? I mean, how did someone etch the logo into there ?
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00:51 harry-wood: the way you can fill in patches on this thing by panning around. It's kind of fun, but at the same time kind of annoying.
00:51 harry-wood: I really wish there was a more reliable instant view of where bing is available
00:52 skorasaurus: harry-wood: gotcha.
00:52 harry-wood: people have figured out ways of requesting tiles in sequence to fill in bits of this display. Done in a grid pattern worldwide. And someone with too much time on their hands did in the patter on an OSM logo
00:53 harry-wood: but the worldwide grid and the OSM logo were both done a long time ago
00:53 harry-wood: so it's showing red in lots of places which will now turn green if you zoom in on them
00:54 pierzen: Do we know Microsoft plans about other imageries?
00:54 harry-wood: hence the display is annoyingly unreliable
00:54 wonderchook: microsoft just magically makes imagery appear
00:54 wonderchook: they've never mentioned anything
00:55 harry-wood: Steve coast did mention on the mailing list once that they'd like to know where we consider to be priority areas
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00:55 pierzen: I saw that two weeks ago around my home. And it was progressing every day.
00:55 harry-wood: no doubt he received a million different replies to that
00:55 pierzen: Looking at Niger river, it seems there where some priorities around there.
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00:57 wonderchook: yeah harry-wood he mentioned that, but that has been all
00:57 harry-wood: wonderchook you want to chat about any other topics
00:58 harry-wood: there's a few topics we have stored up for an upcoming board meeting
00:58 skorasaurus: i have a brief question: there's a few pictures that I had taken while on HOT-SN... is there a specific place to upload them to ?
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00:59 skorasaurus: like a HOT flickr account ?
00:59 harry-wood: fun photos? or mapping photos?
00:59 wonderchook: skorasaurus: I've been using HOT's facebook account
00:59 skorasaurus: a combination of both; I'd upload the ones that HOT would be interested in (of mapping parties, presentations, etc)
01:00 wonderchook: there really should be a blog post
01:00 wonderchook: well there should have been while you guys were out and about
01:00 wonderchook: but according to the internet HOT doesn't do stuff in Senegal
01:00 harry-wood: facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/hotosm/photos?ref=ts doesn't let anyone upload though hey?
01:00 skorasaurus: wonderchook: I know, I know :p
01:01 skorasaurus: we're working on them.
01:01 wonderchook: there should be 1 post
01:01 wonderchook: not a bunch
01:01 wonderchook: because it is too late
01:01 wonderchook: since you are back
01:01 wonderchook: I've told Nico the same thing
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01:01 wonderchook: the point of the blogging while you are out is that you end up meeting/working with people you wouldn't have
01:02 skorasaurus: ahh.
01:02 wonderchook: there could maybe be 2 posts if someone wants to blog about their experience interning for HOT
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01:02 wonderchook: I meet people in Indonesia fairly often because of the blogging/tweeting/etc we do here
01:04 harry-wood: I just documented something on the wiki
01:04 harry-wood: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Senegal#HOT_in_Senegal
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01:04 harry-wood: It's a stub :-)
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01:05 harry-wood: Now the internet knows we're in Senegal. The internet must know all!
01:05 wonderchook: nice sentence harry-wood;)
01:05 skorasaurus: ;p
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01:06 harry-wood: skorasaurus. Maybe you'd like to compose the blog post on Hackpad
01:06 harry-wood: Think I will do this for the blog post I was talking about
01:07 skorasaurus: harry-wood: will do so.
01:09 wonderchook: speaking about Hackpad I think we are at a good point here: https://hackpad.com/lD7tOgNVNLR#*HOT-Membership-Survey-Questions
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01:10 pierzen: ;)
01:10 harry-wood: https://hackpad.com/AhLuNfw9HIT#USAID-Refugee-camp-mapping-update <— this is also a stub :-)
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01:11 wonderchook: I was thinking with the membership survey I'd add a question if people are members or not
01:11 wonderchook: so that anyone can take the survey
01:11 wonderchook: and also state it will be anonymous but the results released publicly
01:11 harry-wood: yes. And a "I'm not sure" option
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01:12 wonderchook: yeah, I was going to put an explanation
01:12 wonderchook: since I think some people think being on the mailing list is membership
01:12 harry-wood: exactly
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01:13 harry-wood: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Members
01:14 pierzen: And there are people from other NGO that simply like to follow our activities, discuss. Could this make a question?
01:14 pierzen: like people interests in following discussions?
01:15 wonderchook: I'm not sure what the question is
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01:15 wonderchook: do you mean "are you a hot member" yes, no, not sure, no I just want to follow the discussion?
01:15 harry-wood: Could have a question "Do you think non-members should be included in this survey?" . "No" .. "You are not a member. This survey will now self-distruct"
01:16 pierzen: Ok the title say Hot Membership. But if we open to non members ...
01:18 wonderchook: hmm, okay I have an idea
01:18 wonderchook: I'll send a survey out directly to the emails of the members
01:18 wonderchook: and I will also post an open survey to the list
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01:18 wonderchook: and change the title when posted to the list
01:18 harry-wood: sounds good to me
01:19 harry-wood: could do this as one of those google forms hey?
01:20 wonderchook: there was some reason I thought the survey was too complicated to do that
01:20 wonderchook: I can't remember why
01:21 wonderchook: the nested checkboxes, I'm not sure if I can do that. but I suppose really there are ways to get around it
01:21 harry-wood: I've never set up a google form
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01:21 pierzen: Quite simple
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01:23 pierzen: Quite simple if you do simple things. nested checkboxes? I dont think Google do that.
01:24 wonderchook: yeah, I was thinking I could just do "-----nested" if necessary
01:24 wonderchook: to set it apart
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01:44 harry-wood: right. off to bed