Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/28 September 2015
Meeting started by Tallguy-Nick at 18:22:30 UTC. The full logs are
available at
http://dogodigi.net/logs/hot/2015/hot.2015-09-28-18.22.log.html .
Approval of Agenda
- LINK:
https://hackpad.com/HOT-Training-WG-Agenda-28th-September-2015-mrKjXHz2pqS (Tallguy-Nick, 18:23:00)
- Approval of Agenda (Tallguy-Nick, 18:26:01)
Actions - None
18:22:30 <Tallguy-Nick> #startmeeting Training Working Group
18:22:30 <hot_meetbot`> Meeting started Mon Sep 28 18:22:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Tallguy-Nick. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:22:30 <hot_meetbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:22:30 <hot_meetbot`> The meeting name has been set to 'training_working_group'
18:23:00 <Tallguy-Nick> #link https://hackpad.com/HOT-Training-WG-Agenda-28th-September-2015-mrKjXHz2pqS
18:24:28 <Tallguy-Nick> Hi SuanReed - sorry, working out how to do the meetbot and missed out on the welcomes!
18:26:01 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic Approval of Agenda
18:27:04 <Tallguy-Nick> Any updates on that, or shall we keep moving on?
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Minutes 14th September
(Tallguy-Nick, 18:27:49) * LINK: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/14_September_2015 (Tallguy-Nick, 18:28:12)
Actions - None
18:27:49 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic Minutes 14th September
18:28:12 <Tallguy-Nick> #link https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/14_September_2015
18:30:37 <Tallguy-Nick> Very quiet meeting! - I'll keep moving on, or am I missing something?
18:31:08 <SteveBower> All good, carry on!
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LearnOSM updates
(Tallguy-Nick, 18:31:35) * LINK: https://github.com/Nick-Tallguy/Nick-Tallguy.github.io/wiki/Languages-DRAFT (Tallguy-Nick, 18:38:00) * LINK: http://piwik.hotosm.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=3&period=month&date=2015-09-17#/module=Actions&action=menuGetPageUrls&idSite=3&period=month&date=2015-09-17 (Tallguy-Nick, 18:53:06) * LINK: http://mapgive.state.gov/learn-to-map/ (SuzanReed, 19:01:45) * LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13RSWqGJceHDwrQNn8x6Q8bDPCqZL2PjZmFF45_xPHh8/edit?usp=sharing (SteveBower, 19:28:27) * LINK: http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/tasking-manager/ (SteveBower, 19:39:36)
Actions - SteveBower, SuzanReed & Tallguy-Nick
SteveBower - update a list of suitable guides to link to - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13RSWqGJceHDwrQNn8x6Q8bDPCqZL2PjZmFF45_xPHh8/edit?usp=sharing
SuzanReed - review beginner modules
Tallguy-Nick - Tasking Manager Module to Transifex.
18:31:35 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic LearnOSM updates
18:32:12 <Tallguy-Nick> Spanish & German translations from Transifex have been added to site, plus a few interim guides. Have a Swahili translation to add as well
18:33:22 <Tallguy-Nick> All happy if I keep moving on?
18:33:39 <BlakeGirardot_> Could you explain the transifex workflow please
18:33:48 <BlakeGirardot_> I got a question from a german translator
18:34:02 <BlakeGirardot_> who wondered how the existing german translation was related to transifex
18:34:25 <BlakeGirardot_> and I wasn't sure if transifex got the existing translations incorporated or all transifex
18:34:34 <BlakeGirardot_> translations were essentially new translations
18:34:38 <Tallguy-Nick> just getting the link from github, but German has someone who adds from Github as well, so has a mixture
18:35:08 <BlakeGirardot_> But did we start with empty language translations on transifex or did we somehow make use of the existing translations?
18:36:14 <Tallguy-Nick> I think his username is Michael63 has been updating github for a while - he provided the latest version of the Field Papers guide
18:36:35 <Tallguy-Nick> & he also provided some translations each way English / German
18:36:35 <osmbot-test> Tallguy-Nick: Error: "he" is not a valid command.
18:36:37 <BlakeGirardot_> Ya, I don't remmber who it was, it might very well have been Michael
18:37:40 <Tallguy-Nick> Michael63's version was the 'master' in English & German, and it has meant that the German translation workflow is a mixture
18:38:00 <Tallguy-Nick> #link https://github.com/Nick-Tallguy/Nick-Tallguy.github.io/wiki/Languages-DRAFT
18:38:11 <Tallguy-Nick> is how the translations work most of the time
18:38:27 <Tallguy-Nick> we also have Swahili which is taking place on GitHub
18:39:38 <BlakeGirardot_> ok that helps.
18:40:04 <BlakeGirardot_> so did you find a way to make use of the existing translations when we started using transifex?
18:40:18 <BlakeGirardot_> or do I not understand something and that question doesn't make sense.
18:40:38 <Tallguy-Nick> I haven't deleted any of the existing files, or we would have very little left on the site
18:41:11 <BlakeGirardot_> ya, i guess what i am asking is
18:41:29 <Tallguy-Nick> When a translation is complete on Transifex, I download it & add it to the site, probably as a replacement for what is already there
18:41:35 <BlakeGirardot_> do we have a process for getting what is already translated into transifex
18:41:46 <BlakeGirardot_> or are we started from scratch with transifex
18:42:08 <BlakeGirardot_> It is difficult to ask I guess.
18:42:43 <Tallguy-Nick> Not really - in many cases I don't know which version of the site it is a translation of. I'd prefer it if the transifex translations go ahead & we replace what we have already
18:43:04 <BlakeGirardot_> That sounds good to me.
18:44:04 <BlakeGirardot_> I guess if someone knows what they are doing, they could look at the existing learnosm translation and what is now in transifex and just use what is appropriate and translate new what is not in the existing translation
18:44:54 <BlakeGirardot_> It doesn't take a lot of "knows what they are doing" just understanding they have to go via transifex and if it is translated correctly, they can use it, enter it in TX, and if not, translate it directly in TX
18:46:16 <Tallguy-Nick> In a perfect world there would be a translation & a review - there seem to be those roles in transifex.
18:47:54 <Tallguy-Nick> Transifex is currently showing 31 coordinators, 2 reviewers & 64 translators - but I don't know which languages!
18:48:21 <BlakeGirardot_> I also have some confusion, not being admin in tx, about dialects of languages
18:48:52 <BlakeGirardot_> I would prefer not to bother with dialects and regional variations as it creates way too much admin overhead.
18:49:06 <Tallguy-Nick> Yes, I had requests for Mexican Spanish, but I've kept it at just Spanish - LearnOSM has limitations on languages as well
18:49:38 <BlakeGirardot_> Ok, cool.
18:50:06 <BlakeGirardot_> I have sent people emails that say we are not supporting regional variations so will be 'deny'ed for requests to translate them
18:50:22 <Tallguy-Nick> Do I need to adjust the workflow for German - I had been referring to Michael63 as he can also manage the staging site if I am absent
18:53:06 <Tallguy-Nick> #link http://piwik.hotosm.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=3&period=month&date=2015-09-17#/module=Actions&action=menuGetPageUrls&idSite=3&period=month&date=2015-09-17
18:53:21 <Tallguy-Nick> are the stats for visitors to LearnOSM in September.
18:54:44 <Tallguy-Nick> Includes 1824 unique visitors to the English version of the beginners section, plus the other languages translated from it
18:56:56 <Tallguy-Nick> Any more on LearnOSM, or I'll move it along to the next item
18:58:29 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic HOT Training Centre
18:59:40 <SuzanReed> I’m here!
18:59:51 <SteveBower> @Suzan - I saw your email re the MapGive training, asking whether that captures what we want for an intro, for HOT mapping. I will have to check that out.
18:59:57 <SuzanReed> Did you all get my email?
19:00:33 <Tallguy-Nick> I haven't read all my emails yet today - will now
19:01:18 <SuzanReed> MapGive has excellent training. Do we need to reinvent the wheel.
19:01:30 <Tallguy-Nick> I haven't checked it lately - have they updated it as some bits were out of date - not sure how much of a problem that is
19:01:45 <SuzanReed> http://mapgive.state.gov/learn-to-map/
19:02:45 <Tallguy-Nick> It's a very good resource, but we would still need something to cover those in low bandwidth areas, and those who can't access it
19:03:31 <SuzanReed> OK. So. We need to do a low tech solution with about the same information?
19:03:40 <SuzanReed> Add something for HOT.
19:03:57 <SuzanReed> Sorry. I’ve been quite under the weather and didn’t get this sorted.
19:04:49 <SuzanReed> There are a number of good resources, but that’s the best I’ve found.
19:04:53 <Tallguy-Nick> Certainly at least some kind of quick start guide would be good. It's used by more than 'remote' mappers
19:05:16 <SuzanReed> OK! I understand.
19:05:48 <SuzanReed> I just haven’t had the ooooph to get it done, and wondered about that page.
19:05:57 <SuzanReed> My apologies.
19:06:12 <Tallguy-Nick> I like it as a quick start, but we can't rely on it as the only thing
19:06:58 <SuzanReed> So what else will we need besides a quick start?
19:07:12 <SuzanReed> I have all those modules.
19:07:39 <SuzanReed> No worries. I’ll get it sorted soon as I am able.
19:08:40 <SuzanReed> Good to check in with you here.
19:08:57 <Tallguy-Nick> I sometimes wonder if a sort of parallel quickstart guide would be an answer
19:09:10 <SuzanReed> Describe?
19:09:58 <Tallguy-Nick> We only need the topic headings for 99% of people - if they want the whole story they could check back later
19:10:48 <SuzanReed> Yes. Good. Organization of the material and an appropriate menu for easy reference for a variety of topics.
19:12:30 <SuzanReed> I can see this all in my mind.
19:13:26 <SuzanReed> We want everything easily accessable.
19:13:32 <Tallguy-Nick> At one point we do link to the Mapgive site, I think somewhere in the remote / coordination section. Most people start, do some mapping, then realise they would like to know more
19:14:16 <SuzanReed> I had a question and had to search all over to find the answer. I think we can do a good service by haivng links and material in one place.
19:14:58 <SuzanReed> That’s exactly what happened to me. Also read the email from Enya today on the HOT list.
19:15:19 <Tallguy-Nick> Yes, the searching only works on the titles and I think it only works in English as well, but I need to investigate that. We have spoken of a full site index
19:15:31 <Tallguy-Nick> Sorry, haven't seen that email yet either
19:15:38 <SuzanReed> A full site index would be great.
19:16:06 <SuzanReed> I asked about http://mapgive.state.gov/learn-to-map/ and if we needed to reinvent the wheel.
19:16:19 <Tallguy-Nick> I've seen both emails now
19:16:52 <SuzanReed> Oh. Sorry. I am a bit on the slow side today! The one from Enya asking for more infomration on mapping.
19:17:21 <Tallguy-Nick> Personally I'd like some quickstart guides, and some links to guides like the ones Blake produced which shows something about image interpretation
19:17:42 <SuzanReed> His guides are excellent.
19:17:54 <SuzanReed> I’ve learned a lot from them.
19:18:20 <SuzanReed> It all needs to be gathered and organized so it’s easy to find the information.
19:18:44 <Tallguy-Nick> We need a mixture of low tech for those who need it, but the remote / armchair / mapathon / coordination section could have links to high tech in my opinion
19:19:21 <SuzanReed> I agree.
19:19:53 <SuzanReed> So it’s OK for us to link to other resources?
19:20:13 <SteveBower> I agree too. In general, beginner material should link to more intermediate/advanced material
19:20:40 <SteveBower> There's a "more resources" section at the end of each (or most) LearnOSM modules
19:20:52 <Tallguy-Nick> I think so - I've included a couple in the past and I think we could do a lot more - I'm limited by the 24/7 problem!
19:20:59 <SteveBower> And there are some links within modules to other modules
19:22:44 <Tallguy-Nick> Could we have a spreadsheet or something with links to potential resources and then we chose appropriate ones?
19:23:20 <SuzanReed> Good idea, Nick.
19:23:55 <Tallguy-Nick> Although it's my idea, could someone else run with it please - I'm swamped with what I do already.
19:24:48 <SteveBower> @Nick, I can add that to the OSM re-org spreadsheet, which lists all the modules
19:25:02 <SuzanReed> When I’m back and ready to do this I will put together a spreadsheet where everyone can publish links.
19:25:08 <SteveBower> But I think it's mostly an issue for the beginner modules
19:25:21 <SuzanReed> OK, Steve, that would be good.
19:25:25 <Tallguy-Nick> That would be good thanks - both of you
19:25:54 <SuzanReed> I have yet to get the scope.
19:26:33 <Tallguy-Nick> Could a quick tidy of the beginner modules take place, then the creation of a parallel 'site index' type quickstart aimed at the remote mappers or whose who would prefer it
19:26:41 <SuzanReed> Yes.
19:27:20 <SuzanReed> I was planning on prioritizing beginner modules first.
19:28:24 <SteveBower> I added a column to the re-org sheet
19:28:27 <SteveBower> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13RSWqGJceHDwrQNn8x6Q8bDPCqZL2PjZmFF45_xPHh8/edit?usp=sharing
19:28:57 <Tallguy-Nick> The stats show that many people like the beginner section - it seems to suite some learning styles. But I think it needs a 'quick' tidy up. Then an alternative guide for those who prefer quickstart.
19:29:02 <SuzanReed> Thank you, Steve.
19:30:00 <SuzanReed> I am sorry I have not been able to get to it. It’s a high priority as soon as I am back to work.
19:30:44 <Tallguy-Nick> OK, not a problem. Give it a shot when you get the chance
19:30:51 <SteveBower> @Nick, our plan (based on the Sep 14 meeting) is to have a "Beginner" section that works for new HOT mappers, so that it can be referenced from a HOT "quick start" guide
19:31:13 <SteveBower> But that "Beginner" section will be part of the overall LearnOSM, which is for all OSM users...
19:31:38 <SteveBower> then we will revise other parts of the OSM "Beginner" guide (which has multiple modules)...
19:32:12 <SteveBower> to remove redundant material. Thus managing the "HOT" material as a subset of the full LearnOSM material.
19:32:57 <SteveBower> Does that make sense? Sound good?
19:33:20 <Tallguy-Nick> SteveBower - sounds good to me
19:34:02 <SteveBower> Suzan will focus on material suitable for a HOT beginner, then we'll figure out how to incorporate that into the overall LearnOSM
19:34:33 <SteveBower> ...which should be pretty easy, I think.
19:34:38 <SteveBower> When we get there
19:36:17 <SuzanReed> Exactly, Steve. Something that’s not condescending.
19:36:30 <SuzanReed> I need to go.
19:36:40 <Tallguy-Nick> I like the sound of this, but would like to put the Task Manager module which I recently updated up for translation
19:38:06 <SteveBower> @Nick, any reason not to proceed with the translation? Are you looking for input?
19:38:21 <Tallguy-Nick> Suzan asked me to wait at one point
19:39:01 <SuzanReed> Nick, tell me again what excatly you need from me. As I said, a bit foggy.
19:39:36 <SteveBower> #link http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/tasking-manager/
19:39:44 <Tallguy-Nick> OK. at one point you asked me to wait before submitting it for translation. I think it should go now, and we amend it if needed later
19:40:08 <SuzanReed> OK.
19:40:43 <Tallguy-Nick> Thanks for that, I'll try to do it later today
19:40:53 <SteveBower> (That link is the old version, of course)
19:41:06 <SuzanReed> It’s fine to put it in for translation.
19:41:27 <Tallguy-Nick> That's the new version in the link - just only in English
19:41:39 <SteveBower> ok
19:41:44 <SuzanReed> Is there anything I need to know before I log out of the meeting.
19:42:09 <Tallguy-Nick> Not that I'm aware of SuzanReed
19:42:21 <SuzanReed> Thank you all.
19:42:28 <Tallguy-Nick> Thank you!
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HOT Training Centre
(Tallguy-Nick, 18:58:29)
Actions - Russell Deffner
Russell Deffner - update on Training Centre for next meeting.
19:42:59 <Tallguy-Nick> HOT Training centre - do we have an update?
19:43:18 <BlakeGirardot_> I do not think we do, that is Russ's
19:43:32 <BlakeGirardot_> and he hasn't had a chance to catch up since he returned from Jakarta
19:43:51 <Tallguy-Nick> OK - think we will have to postpone that item then
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New Business
(Tallguy-Nick, 19:44:46)
* LINK: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot/Tasking_Manager_Default_Roads,_Buildings,_Waterways_Instructions (BlakeGirardot_, 19:46:38) * LINK: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1210 (BlakeGirardot_, 19:47:52)
Actions Bgirardot & all TrainingWG
Bgirardot - File prepared for translation & forward to Tallguy-Nick for Transifex (or own arrangement for Transifex
Training WG - all team to review & feedback on Instructions & TM job in links.
19:44:46 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic New Business
19:45:02 <Tallguy-Nick> Any New Business please?
19:45:59 <BlakeGirardot_> Tallguy-Nick: I've been working on some model instructions for the TM
19:46:30 <Tallguy-Nick> Sounds interesting
19:46:38 <BlakeGirardot_> Not really formatted properly in the wiki
19:46:38 <BlakeGirardot_> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot/Tasking_Manager_Default_Roads,_Buildings,_Waterways_Instructions
19:47:52 <BlakeGirardot_> instructions on this project are most of them
19:47:52 <BlakeGirardot_> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1210
19:47:56 <BlakeGirardot_> and formatted
19:48:21 <BlakeGirardot_> anyway, feedback is welcome, but I'd like to get them in transifex so they can get translated
19:48:40 <BlakeGirardot_> as well.
19:49:24 <RAytoun> Hi. Sorry for my absence, delayed at the Hospital. Wife has a bad ear infection. Those instructions are brilliant.
19:50:55 <Tallguy-Nick> I like them - would like to read them in more detail than I can in a few minutes here
19:51:06 <BlakeGirardot_> Ok, cool. Ya, lets revist them in the next meeting
19:51:11 <Tallguy-Nick> Welcome Raytoun. Hope Hospital went okay
19:51:41 <BlakeGirardot_> Hi RAytoun, I second that, I hope your wife is feeling better soon.
19:51:41 <Tallguy-Nick> I'll send you a message - don't think I will be able to get to the next meeting, but I will try
19:51:44 <SteveBower> @Blake I have a few comments too, which I can email to you
19:52:23 <BlakeGirardot_> SteveBower: Yes, please do
19:53:12 <BlakeGirardot_> I'd like to get a good basic set that can just be used and what is not needed is just removed, get them translated so people can have base instructions in other languages too.
19:53:15 <Tallguy-Nick> We've been going nearly 2 hours. Do you want to discuss more now, or shall we move to next meeting date?
19:53:30 <BlakeGirardot_> I am set, just wanted to share those for comment
19:53:34 <SteveBower> I'm set
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Next meeting
(Tallguy-Nick, 19:53:51)
Actions - None Monday 12th October, 1800hrs UTC
19:53:51 <Tallguy-Nick> #topic Next meeting
19:54:50 <Tallguy-Nick> Monday 12th October, 1800hrs UTC - okay with everyone. I'll have to present apologies as I have a travel commitment that day & may not be on a computer at that time
19:55:18 <Tallguy-Nick> That should have read 'if okay with everyone?' - sorry
19:55:36 <SteveBower> I can't make the next, back after that
19:55:44 <SteveBower> the next meeting, that is
19:56:55 <Tallguy-Nick> Are we good if I end the meeting now?
19:57:44 <RAytoun> I should be OK for the 12th. Wife's balance is a bit off but she will be fine.
19:58:36 <Tallguy-Nick> Many thanks to all who participated. I appreciate how much a pull it can be on peoples time to be present, and to prepare for these meetings. Thanks again. Raytoun, make sure she gets better!
19:59:40 <Tallguy-Nick> I'll notify everyone of the minutes when I get the chance
19:59:51 <Tallguy-Nick> #endmeeting
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People present (lines said)
- Tallguy-Nick (74)
- SuzanReed (44)
- BlakeGirardot_ (36)
- SteveBower (25)
- hot_meetbot` (3)
- RAytoun (2)
- osmbot-test (1)
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