Proposal talk:Deprecate departures board=realtime

Additional links

See also https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/1974. --Flo Edelmann (talk) 15:43, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

iD push the statistics

departures_board is a much more complete key than passenger_information_display, but the reason the latter is more used is simply because it comes as a preset in iD, the most used editor for inexperienced users who don't read the wiki. AgusQui (talk) 22:32, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

It's definitely because of iD. Unfortunately I wasn't able to see when it was added and the discussion around it in the iD tagging repository. --Dimitar155 (talk) 14:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Does anyone have a link to the ticket in which this was added and discussed? Usually, tag presets in iD should not be added until it has been resolved which of several competing ways to tag the same things have been resolved. Was it added without knowledge of the other way to tag? --Westnordost (talk) 22:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

It appears that iD used passenger_information_display until Feb 2019. Then it was replaced by departures_board. Unfortunately there is no discussion (or at least not on Github). It was added as part of version 2.14.0 (changelog) in this commit. Dimitar155 (talk) 04:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

The iD presets are maintained in a separate repo since a few years, maybe a ticket for that can be found there? Westnordost (talk) 07:08, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

iD presets were part of the main repository until version 2.20.0 (released in July 2021). Dimitar155 (talk) 12:37, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Realtime property

Hi! How can we state passenger_information_display=yes is realtime or not? I know passenger information display that only show theoretical information without realtime update. It sounds we should distinguish them, shouldn't you? Why not passenger_information_display=realtime? Fanfouer (talk) 14:39, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Can you define what you mean by "theoretical information without realtime update"? --Dimitar155 (talk) 14:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Planed timetable with departure/arrival times as they were planed without update about delays or traffic issues. It remains passenger information display, without realtime. By the way, I see nothing in passenger_information_display=* which make me think it covers realtime information boards only. Fanfouer (talk) 14:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

That would be departures_board=timetable. Passenger information display is by definition digital and it always shows realtime information. If you search for "passenger information display" on Google, DuckDuckGo or any other search engine and go to the images section you will see that all such boards are digital and provide realtime information. Dimitar155 (talk) 15:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Passenger_information_system partly agrees with you. To me it's not a good idea to put realtime in passenger_information_display=* and let schedules in departures_board=*. Why didn't you think about a wider move from departures_board to passenger_information_display with both realtime and schedules? Fanfouer (talk) 15:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

That would require updating the tags of 190k+ objects. On the other hand the current proposal only affects ~15k elements. Dimitar155 (talk) 15:28, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

And how many passenger information displays remain to be mapped around the world? 15 millions? 50 millions? Fanfouer (talk) 15:37, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Only time can tell. Dimitar155 (talk) 15:44, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Way forward / wish list

Comment I drafted only for being off-topic:

1. Separate tagging of format in electronic vs printed
2. Separate time, headway/frequency, and real-time. Having one thing doesn't imply anything on the others. It's possible to have real-time ETA without printed timetables, especially on tram and metro. Of course this may tie to the fact whether there is public timetables at all, when they provide high frequency service only necessitating internal scheduling. Not sure about the situation of minute frequency trains worldwide. Looking at an app or website is usually more available than trying to find one at the station.
3. For real-time, distinguish exact time (very clear) and countdown to next arrival in minutes (can fluctuate, and is difficult to keep track)
4. Fix other attributes, especially the wrongly translated departures_board=delay for headway/frequency, and add something to show actual delay and incident information
5. Some PIDS lists out stops made by each train when there are limited stops / different stopping patterns.
6. Some PIDS (not sure about examples of only) shows the exact location of a train between stations, ie how many stops away
7. Some PIDS (only) shows the vehicle's distance remaining to the stop.

--- Kovposch (talk) 06:25, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas. I will create a new proposal and try to add them in it when I have more free time. Dimitar155 (talk) 06:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Kovposch I've created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refine_departures_board_tagging. Let me know if you have any comments on it's talk page. Dimitar155 (talk) 06:03, 21 September 2022 (UTC)