Proposal talk:Top up

Namespacing

Thanks for updating the proposal based on the mailing list suggestions :) Bkil (talk) 12:47, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome :) -Danysan (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Credit card example

I agree with the argument from the mailing list: you cannot top up a credit card, if you have to top up the card it is a prepaid / debit card. —Dieterdreist (talk) 08:56, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I meant prepaid credit card, as I wrote in the latest version of the proposal -Danysan (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Multiple types or brands

What if the amenity sells top-ups for multiple brands or multiple types of top-ups? Semicolon separated lists? Rmikke (talk) 19:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, semicolon separated lists, like it's shown in Proposed features/Top up#Examples -Danysan (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Could we also cover money transfer orders?

We have a use case in Hungary that you may consider to cover. Many people pay their bills at the post office through money transfer orders printed on small yellow printed paper slips (so called "Csekk" or "Sárga csekk").

It is commonly offered by energy companies, municipal fees (waste disposal, water, etc.), telco (Internet service providers, phone, TV) and the government (for any kind of fee related to official inquiries, taxes, registration, etc). The post office has deployed numerous vending machines to automate the payment of these orders (they call it "Posta Csekkpont").

TESCO offers a competing service with their own network of vending machines, but it is only possible to pay a small subset of bills there, because they aren't providing real money transfers, rather a kind of B2B network to commit these transfer at a lower cost without paying the Post office.

Could you please recommend a combination of tags that we should use for these two networks?

Unfortunately, most of the links I have are in Hungarian, but do reach out to me if you need more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_order#Money_orders_around_the_world

• https://www.posta.hu/vallalkozasoknak/penzforgalmi_szolgaltatasok/keszpenzatutalasi_megbizas_sarga_csekk
• https://tesco.hu/markak-es-szolgaltatasok/szolgaltatasok/csekkpont/
• http://nol.hu/gazdasag/csekkbefizetes-ejjel-nappal-automatakkal-probalkozik-a-posta-1505003
• https://www.tozsdeforum.hu/szemelyes-penzugyek/napi-penzugyek/elindult-a-tesco-csekkpont-szolgaltatasa-45547.html
• http://www.tescomagyarorszag.hu/hu/sajt%C3%B3/sajt%C3%B3k%C3%B6zlem%C3%A9nyek/article/226-csekkponttal-indul-a-tesco

Bkil (talk) 20:18, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi, how is this related to top-up prepaid coupons/tokens? Could you give an example e.g. I have to pay 20€ to the energy company. I have 2 csekk worth 10€ each. I go to Posta and feed the bill from the energy company followed by my 2 csekk. The machine accepts the payment? Maybe this is better mapped following a proposal of its own? Or simply as another type of amenity=vending_machine - i.e. the machine sells the service of registering payment of your bill?--PangoSE (talk) 11:30, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

It would be ideal if we could locate places where you can pay your energy bills. One solution would be to introduce a tag for it (i.e., top_up=money_transfer_order/tesco_csekkpont?) and a single query could return both Hungarian post offices and the said vending machines operated by the Hungarian post office (or Tesco operated ones, depending on the kind of bill you have at hand), possibly located at other places as well. We would mass tag the Hungarian post offices with this tag automatically and would need to survey such vending machines as well. Bkil (talk) 12:10, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

What about simply adding csekkpoint=yes?--PangoSE (talk) 09:24, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, I rather that we don't put such specific values in keys. "posta_csekkpont" and "tesco_csekkpont" are values coming from a possibly infinite range, while we usually only add general categories on the left side. For vending machines, this could be solved by vending=posta_csekkpont/tesco_csekkpont, but what should we put on post offices? Perhaps I'm over thinking this and we shouldn't mark post offices such a way. It was just an idea inspired by your bill payment points. Otherwise prepaid_top_up:energy=yes will not be used in Hungary, because money transfer orders are more general than energy bills, and we have no separate system in place for the latter. Bkil (talk) 10:19, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand this reluctance to introduce new keys. Just make up a general category, document it and stick to it. In my view every single csekkpoint (regardless of Tesco or Posta) is good to tag as I suggested. (I presume that they are compatible).

Discussion of 5th proposal voting

Moved from the proposal page:

@PangoSE: Do you want or did you start a new voting? --Tigerfell  (Let's talk) 20:02, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

It would be great to see acceptance of this proposal eventually. But before voting, could you please address my question on the talk page regarding money transfer orders? Bkil (talk) 20:19, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Tigerfell, this was just an idea I got. Feel free to do with it what you want I have no intention of hijacking your proposal page or starting voting. Maybe I should have written this on the talk-page instead, can you move it there?--PangoSE (talk) 20:37, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I copied it over. It is not my proposal, I just found it when doing some clean up in the wiki and I was wondering whether a post-voting cleanup would be necessary or the status was simply wrong. --Tigerfell  (Let's talk) 21:19, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I adopted the proposal and will soon send it for RFC/voting again.--PangoSE (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

User-defined namespace

Hello, I am a Japanese mapper. The idea of tagging prepaid top-ups seems very interesting to me.

[Q] Do user-defined namespaces make some sence?

For example, if we have a recharge station for cards which are exclusively used for paying fee of amusement game machines like PASELI(by KONAMI), can we tag it as prepaid_top_up:gaming=yes? --Yumean1119 (talk) 19:56, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes that sounds resonable to me. :) I never heard about that before but I will add it now to the proposal.--PangoSE (talk) 09:25, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Brands as an optional detail?

I've read in the rejection comments that many opposed to putting brand details in keys. What do you think about this version? prepaid_top_up:mobile=yes/<brands>. The reason is that around here, you could top up your mobile phone either at the given carrier, kiosks over generic online charging or at given supermarket chains (supporting fixed subsets of carriers). We could easily map such detail when importing the given supermarket chain's data. We have already raised this question during previous imports before this proposal was started. Bkil (talk) 10:26, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I suggest we leave this out because it is too much to maintain IMO.--PangoSE (talk) 16:15, 10 May 2019 (UTC)