Talk:Mom

N95

I am new with MOM. Can anybody please tell me which version of MOM to use with the Nokia N95?--Markus Chania 15:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The N95 has the Java Location API so use the locationAPI version of mom. You can configure the N95 (Nokia menus - not mom) to use either its internal GPS or a separate Bluetooth GPS. --Elvin 10:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Compatibility List

(Add devices with the correct version of the software and your experiences here.)

N95

• API

HTC Artemis

• ?

Larger, long-term discussions

I decided to discuss on these proposals here rather than on the main page to avoid cluttering it. Maybe a synopsis can be posted later when discussion reaches a conclusion later on. Sebastiaan 16:18, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I am starting to look at the feasibility of vector maps using binary data and SVG and starting to think about calculated routes (see roadmap on main page). Modules/plug-ins might be a good idea if I keep adding features, but does anyone know how to implement them in JME/MIDP? --Elvin 09:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I had a look at JOSM to know how they did it. Seems like JOSM provides a Plugin class that can be overloaded. It also looks like a plugin should actually be an external application, but that the plugin loader then gives access to some parts of the main program. I'll try to delve deeper and provide a more thourough insight, though I must admit I never programmed anything like it myself. Sebastiaan 11:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion on routing

The following was proposed by Jkp :

how about routing and vector map drawing, is that out of scope for mom? I can't seem to find any free software routing java or even symbian app to work with OSM on mobile phones, and especially bicycle routing would be nice as I suspect the maps for cycleways are not that good with nav4all or such --Jkp 11:27, 3 April 2008 (BST) Addendum: I just noticed GpsMid with preliminary routing support and apparently vector map drawing, opensource under the GPL. If mom goes free software, maybe code can be merged. --Jkp 17:33, 3 April 2008 (BST)

In this request I see 2 different wishes. First to have an up to date map by doing the rendering on the spot (being in the phone). Secondly the wish to be able to navigate, ie. receive routing directions now common in most commercial applications. Althoug I honestly see no need for the first, I do second the latter.

One does not need on the spot rendering, if a flexible map server is possible. There are servers, like informationfreeway (osmarender) or de cycleway, openpistemap, ... to fulfill any specific mapping need. These renderers run on servers with a lot more calculating capacity and will thus always be able to provide better looking maps. A specific server could even be set up to generate maps suited especially for mobile phones with little devices. Furthermore, Elvin already spoke about implementing overlays with icons, which would allow customisation of the map on the spot, without the need for huge calculating power or the resulting poor looking maps.

Most people however, suppose they'll be able to receive directions from any navigation program. I do note that 'MOM' does not promise anything like navigation in it's name, so it's fully open to Elvin on whether or not it should eventually be included. Without the ambition of being complete, I list a few pro and contra.

• Pro
  • Would make the app usefull to non-mappers
  • Tired mappers find the way back home after mapping. (provided they manage to find one spot already mapped beforehand)
  • It would level up MOM to a full application.
• Contra
  • Many people might not need it when the already have the map
  • It's a lot of programming work
  • It enlarges the footprint of the application, which is up till now surprisingly small

Do I, despite the obvious contra's, still support the inclusion of routing? Yes. I consider MOM to be the most succesfull attempt at displaying maps on my mobile phone. It's the single one application that I did not remove after painstakingly trying to get it to work. I spent a hell lot of time in trying to get the other ones to work (including Trekbuddy) but failed miserably. Exaclty the very simple approach of using prerendered maps, with a rather intuitive way of navigating it (though I'll still formulate some suggestions for improvement on this) is very appealing. OSM needs such easy-to-use applications to promote it's use among the greater public. The garmin maps are a huge success as far as I can tell. MOM could very well grow to the same potential.

Routing means that every single node, way and probably relation needs to be taken into account. Normally this data is quite large, which composes one of the reasons to reuse it to draw the map itself. I would propose NOT to do this. If you keep the maps pre-rendered, you keep the advantages I described above. So, in fact, we duplicate the information. Once in pre-rendered maps, once in data usable for routing. Thanks to the mobile API, data need has been reduced by about 40% compared to the normal API. Next, If I check the current state of OSM, the whole planet fits onto my memory card in my phone. That said, mine is not extremely large and capacity is very likely to keep growing much more rapidly than the available data in OSM. Thus, is data storage an issue? No. I suspect phone memory to increase too in the nearby future, though not as fast as memory cards. This means that the internal management of the application will remain important for a long time to come.

As a conclusion, I propose that routing be added at some point in the development of MOM, along the lines proposed above. Sebastiaan 16:18, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for the summary. Actually, I was not so much after vector map drawing but instead I was assuming that routing and vector map drawing go together, because that's what all the routing navigation software I've been using seem to do. But as you point out, it's not necessary for the two to go together. Also, my motivation for on-the-spot rendering was not the up-to-dateness of the map, just the assumption that it's coupled with routing. But now that you mention it, I gather maybe on-line access to up-to-date OSM information would be workable and would give more up-to-date maps than the current MOM or GpsMid do. Oh, and if one uses pre-rendered maps, that limits the usage to up-north maps, and one can't see maps where up is the direction we're going in, or?

As for displaying prerendered maps, MGMaps (www.mgmaps.com) seem to work fine to me (so does MOM), and has some more functionality than MOM does (like showing yahoo maps / aerial imagery). As for routing and vector drawing, I bundled GpsMid for the OSM map for all of Finland and it's a bit more than 8 megabytes and seems to run OK on my phone, though it's a bit slow to start and in some other operations too. It's possible to filter OSM data to leave some data out for smaller bundles.

One thing missing from your analysis is on-line vs. off-line usage. With a fixed-fee data plan on domestic use I have no problem with constant downloading of pre-rendered maps, but when in other countries, fixed-fee might not be easily available and maps stored in the phone start to interest me. I don't know how much space pre-rendered maps take vs. the OSM vector data.

One thing I'm thinking about is that if the app used vector-based OSM data, maybe it would be easier to add functionality to get more info on the current road and maybe even neighbourhood. Or maybe even ability to edit OSM data on the trip, ie. being able to add mapping info like street names directly from the phone. As an example of what I mean, GpsMid shows the speed limit of the currently travelled way on the display. Maybe OSM client could be added so one could change the speed limit if necessary, or add street names or whatever needs to be changed.

On the other hand, it may not be sensible to add every functionality to every program. GpsMid is based on the model of in-storage OSM data and in-phone rendering, while MOM downloads pre-rendered maps, and it could be a lot of work to fit the two together? My proposal for adding routing was before I had found out about GpsMid and its preliminary routing functionality. There are several ways to go, server-based routing like Nav4all does is one, in-the-phone like like GpsMid does is another, coordinate-based "just show the direction" one more. In the end, it's up to Elvin to decide which way to go, of course. --Jkp 09:59, 8 April 2008 (BST)

I'm confused with GpsMid: it appears to create tiles for different zoom levels in bundling process on the host building the bundle (app+OSM data), but the appearance of maps can be changed from lines to streets in the phone UI, so I'm not sure anymore about what rendering is done on the phone and what on the host. --Jkp 15:14, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Plugin structure

Does everyone want routing? No. Does everyone wants to make photographs with his navigation solution? No. Both questions, combined with my point of view on routing, expressed above, point me to one thing. Maybe the best possible program is the flexible one. Maybe a large part of the functions in MOM should be 'optional', like plugins. Then users can to assemble the functions they need (like the right API for the GPS communication) to a lightweight but fully functional application. I must admit that, though I can explain this in theory, it might be very difficult in practice. I do however think it's a descision that's a lot easier to take early in the development than later on, when functions have to be split in order to make the program more flexible. Sebastiaan 16:18, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I didn't find any future plans other than feature requests, but most likely such will be needed by the author of Mom to make the appropriate decisions on what could be modular and what is the core value of this application, other than "showing a map and saving logs". Editor, navigator, both or none of those? Alv 09:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I want routing and I want to take photos with my navigation solution! --Lulu-Ann 12:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Authorisation Failed!

Hello there. First, I've been using Trekbuddy for quite some time already but although I find it quite a very interesting MIDlet I also find it very confusing in the settings department.

So I decided to try mom a couple of weeks ago, which by the pics sounded much more like the tool that I want for OSMing here in the Portuguese roads.

I looked up at my mobile features here at Nokia 6630 and I found out that it only supports JSR 82 Bluetooth API (No OBEX).

So I downloaded mom, the BluetoothGPS edition which should run on my setup.

I used Nokia PC Suite (latest edition) and I also tried to just copy the jad and jar files to my MMC card and run them from the phone to install mom 1.24 but I always get a "Authorisation Failed!" when I try to install it.

I send Elvin an email and he told me that I have a certificate problem, in that mom isn't provided with a certificate.

He told me to check my phone's setup to disable the certificate checking when installing.

So I went to "Menu>Tools>Manager>Options>Settings" and under "Software installation" I set it up to "On" where opposed to the other two options "Signed only" and "Off".

Also in "Menu>Tools>Manager>Options>Settings" I have "Online certif. check" set up to "Off" where opposed to the other two options "Must be passed" and "On".

A Nokia technician told me that with these settings I should be able to install mom but unfortunately it still doesn't allow me to and shows me the authorization failed message.

So I hard reset'ted my phone with *#7780# and soft format'ed it *#7370#.

Reconfigured the installation options as per Nokia tech recommendation and still can't install. I even played with above mentioned options and tried several possible settings different from Nokia's recommendations but still no go.

Can someone give me a hand?

Does someone have a similar issue with a similar or at least same brand phone?

If so, Elvin, could you please help me discuss this with Nokia to see if it's a bug on their side or something?

Or could you please craft a signed version of mom with one of the root certificates bundled with my phone?

Maybe they have a free for 30 days trial certificate just for testing purposes. Could this article help? Howto build and install signed midlet

Any help will be greatly appreciated ;).

Cheers Rui Correia 17:00, 13 July 2008 (GMT)