Talk:Tag:barrier=handrail
Tagging of a handrail and footrest combination / not a barrier
Wondering about the tagging of such a object,
which seems not a barrier rather an amenity for bicyclist when waiting for green light to cross a street. --MalgiK (talk) 23:13, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Did you come from http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Biker-s-rests-td5974409.html ? My view is both this and that do perform a function of letting someone to lean on to not fall down, on top of obstructing movement. The barrier=* key makes sense. ---- Kovposch (talk) 18:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Doesn't matter. That doesn't have any conclusion. The problem with this tag and your question can actually be whether these should be considered a barrier=fence (fence:function=* is mentioned in the semi-dormant Proposed_features/Fence_attributes). I imagine barrier=handrail should actually be dedicated bars attached to a wall, or fence (eg https://www.mcnealybrown.co.uk/assets/images/gallery/stationRefurbishment.jpg) ---- Kovposch (talk) 13:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- Interesting ideas. I agree seems there is no clear tagging available so far. Maybe a mix of the ideas, like a linear object barrier=bar + bar:function=biker_rest and/or additional a node item of man_made=biker_rest as mentioned here --MalgiK (talk) 21:30, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Not a barrier at all
I strongly disagree to categorise a handrail as a barrier, since this is not the intention of the feature. A handrail is built to give support against falling. If it has a closed construction underneath, it would be a fence with a handrail on top. This problem becomes even more obvious for indoor handrails mounted along an interior wall, which is encouraged by one of the example pictures.
The label "implies: access=no" does not make sense as well, as it would forbid the handrail itself from being used, which again is not its intention.
The value is labeled with status "proposed", unfortunately there is no formal proposal for it which would have revealed those inconsistencies.
--Polarbear w (talk) 11:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- In such cases typical approach is to make your own proposal deprecating unwanted tag. Note that it has enough uses to qualify as "in use" tag, maybe even "de facto". See also https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/barrier=handrail#chronology Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- I changed status to "in use" and removed "implies" Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- "make your own proposal deprecating" - well I'm first expressing my opinion to see what others think. Attention was triggered by weird indoor handrails being rendered currently (carto #4297).--Polarbear w (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
vs fence
@Kovposch: - can you give example of cases where "Unclear difference from fence" applies? Is it about cases like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Guildford,_Curling_Vale_-_geograph.org.uk_-_704434.jpg which are already mentioned on the page? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:14, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- I was only reflecting the above section. Let me add my view here:
- Almost all of Tag:barrier=handrail#Examples_of_handrails shows more of a barrier=fence. Not everything you can hold on to along the edge should be a "handrail". It should be mainly "designed to be grasped".
- Examples:
- 2. The primary purpose of this is to prevent falls outwards into the stairwell, which coincides with "a system designed to keep people straying into dangerous or off-limits areas." of barrier=fence per Tag:barrier=handrail#Difference_to_guard_rails_and_railings. Then, it is made into a handrail. Therefore barrier=handrail is overlapping with barrier=fence. In Key:fence_type#Values, "A railing for example at the edge of a bridge to prevent persons or vehicles from falling down" is almost exactly the same characterization.
- 3,6,7. These are not a "handrail" more than they are a fence. Although you can hold onto them, there's no obvious gradient. Rather they prevent you from going over them. File:Railing, garden of Eben-Ezer.jpg is even described to be a "railing" only.
- 4. Although it continues through the stone steps, as a whole they are primarily for preventing falls away from the rock.
- In general, dedicated bars are often mounted on railings, including those with glass screens, to separately function as a handrail. For example, as shown in the photos of https://www.trexcommercial.com/products/point/. Using barrier=handrail on these would duplicate the meaning of this feature.
- The meaning can be seen to differ from handrail=* as a result of this ambiguity. Key:handrail#Example shows File:Steps.jpg an independent handrail on the wall. They obviously don't serve the same function as the title photo and the examples here, for both holding on to (preventing falls on stairs) and preventing movements into dangerous areas (falling outside the stair).
- Steps_features#Handrail is a contrasting illustration. File:Steps5.jpg in the centre only allows you to hold onto it. The right side is protected by a fence with no handrails. Following this, the intent of handrail=* would be for holding onto only. (Although as a consequence, it divides the staircase into 2 sides, which is often utilized to separate flow directions).
- To compare situations aside from fence_type=railing and fence_type=pole, would the case of chain-link in https://www.piwcorp.com/grand-stair-railing-chain-link/ make them a barrier=fence or barrier=handrail? Or do you have to switch between barrier=handrail along the staircase, and barrier=fence elsewhere on the floor?
- So I conclude this page fails to distinguish a fence with a top that one can hold into, and pure handrails. Unlike Talk:Tag:barrier=handrail#Not_a_barrier_at_wall, barrier=* is acceptable to me (it still prevents falls onto the staircase), but it is not clear how this tag is defined, and what's the interaction with barrier=fence.
- ---- Kovposch (talk) 19:37, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
