Talk:Tag:historic=wayside chapel

Difference from wayside_shrine?

The more common tag historic=wayside_shrine seems to be quite similar. The picture on this page looks like a wayside_shrine. How are the two tags distinguished? Are they just synonyms? --Jeisenbe (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Following the description may be better?--geozeisig (talk) 07:23, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

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This looks like what building=shrine is defining. Aceman444 (talk) 17:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I think that building=shrine is the same as building=chapel, apart from the religion: The term "chapel" is only used for christian buildings, and vice versa. --Fkv (talk) 18:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

The current descriptions seems to differentiate them in the way that you can enter a chapel, pray inside or attend a small holy mass. You can't do that *inside* a shrine (but the operator (1 person) can enter it to repair/clean up the displayed scene). Aceman444 (talk) 18:30, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

The difference is that historic=wayside_shrine is a standard tag, while historic=wayside_chapel is a tagging error, probably introduced by Walter Schlögl. He mixed up two distinct tags (historic=wayside_shrine and building=chapel) by mistake and added this wrong tag in mass edits.

When a human can enter it, it should be tagged as amenity=place_of_worship + building=chapel, otherwise as historic=wayside_shrine. There is obviously no third case.

All instances of historic=wayside_chapel need to be deleted, and this wiki page too. Why on earth did somebody create a wiki page for a tagging error?? --Fkv (talk) 00:55, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I can't follow the assumption that historic=wayside_chapel is supposed to be a tagging error of a certain contributor. historic=wayside_chapel has defined clear distinguishing features from a general wayside shrine ("has a mostly barred opening down to the floor and is only entered for cleaning and decoration). It's in use more than 2300 times, about only 10% of which may have been edited automatically : https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/historic/wayside_chapel Personally I would prefer wayside_chapel as a subtype of wayside_shrine but I think a widely used tag should not be easily marked as deprecated. This is especially true in view of the fact that wayside chapels are actually quite common, especially in Catholic Central Europe: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=wayside_chapel#map That said I propose to revert the designation as deprecated. --geow (talk) 08:22, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Where do you have your definition (..barred opening...) from? There was never a proposal for this tag. The kind of opening would demand a subtag (such as shrine:opening=*) rather than a new main tag. And when you talk about entering (for cleaning), it is a building=* by definition.

2300 is not widely used compared to 58822 (building=chapel) and 71711 (historic=wayside_shrine). Even building=wayside_shrine (another questionable tag) is more abundant.

--Fkv (talk) 09:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, as you know, no proposal is required to use any tag, wayside_chapel was documented 2 years ago: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=DE%3ATag%3Ahistoric%3Dwayside_shrine&type=revision&diff=1564890&oldid=1564875 I agree that it doesn't need a new main tag and would use the sub tag wayside_shrine=wayside_chapel + description=* --geow (talk) 10:25, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Mappers are free to use any tag, but not to change the meaning of existing tags without proper discussion (proposal process), let alone to change translations to contradict the original English page, as happend in the edit you mentioned. If you document historic=wayside_chapel as "in use", people might start to "correct" existing chapels and shrines to the new tag, and the result would be chaos. The distinction between chapels and shrines is already fuzzy enough, and if you add a third tag with about the same meaning, usage will soon become random (i.e. which tag will be used will depend on editor templates instead of definitions).

The subtag wayside_shrine=wayside_chapel at least does not mess up with existing main tags, but it would still be useless as long as neither the key nor the value are properly defined. The most abundant wayside_shrine=* value is currently "chorten", which has nothing in common with historic=wayside_shrine. The chortens I see in Google Images are huge buildings and not on a wayside.

--Fkv (talk) 11:04, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

As already mentioned to my impression the current definition of a wayside chapel as a special case of wayside_shrine is actually quite clear, no meaning has been redefined. The chortens I have seen in Nepal came in some shapes and sizes but are mostly lamaist shrines or small to medium sized monuments. They were almost always accessible by a path or trail, typically found at the entrance of villages or gompas. Maybe I should put this on the wiki ;-) --geow (talk) 11:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

All the examples in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:historic%3Dwayside_chapel&oldid=1927353#Examples are buildings and I would not hesitate to tag them with the usual amenity=place_of_worship + building=chapel + religion=christian. Same for chortens, but with other religion=* tag (and maybe other building=* tag). The tag historic=wayside_shrine was invented for what we call Bildstock in German, which is significantly smaller and cannot be entered. --Fkv (talk) 12:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)