Talk:Tag:passenger=urban
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Definition?
The definition and use of this tag is unclear. Is it for underground railroads in a city center, or any railway serving a whole metropolitan area? A metropolitan area in the USA can be 100 kilometers in diameter (eg New York, Atlanta, Chicago), which is quite different than a city-centre. Perhaps this tag could be proposed and discussed on a public forum? --Jeisenbe (talk) 01:44, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
- I believe this tag diverges slightly with usage between Germany (for distinguishing between U-bahn and others?) and in North America, where it fits quite nicely into the hierarchy below suburban (for full-size "heavy rail" trains) and local trains, where "urban" is used to describe the sort of passenger service found on light_rail lines. Stevea (talk) 16:20, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
- The term "light" rail is used in the USA for at least 4 different types of trains or trams. Coincidentally Alon Levy wrote about this at Pedestrian Observations just today : 1) tramways: slow, street-running streetcar-style 2) tram-trains: slow street-running in the city centre, fast with separate right-of-way and priority in the suburbs (eg Portland Max), 3) Subway/surface: subway (or elevated) in the city, at-grade street-running further out (Boston Green Line, San Francisco Metro) 3) Rapid Transit: metro/subway/elevated all the way, but uses shorter vehicles. Sometimes called "light metro" in Europe. (Los Angeles Green Line - also Seattle's planned 3rd light rail line). Which of these types do you see as passenger=urban, or is there some other characteristic that you want to map with this feature? I don't think they all fit (and also I think the passenger=* key isn't well thought out).
- While there isn't a tag that specifically distinguishes "tram-train" style from "subway/surface" light rail route, this can be determined in an objective way by seeing the location of features like tunnels, bridges and grade crossings on the rail route. Perhaps a separate tag for train length could be used to distinguish light metro (like the 2-car Los Angeles Green Line) from heavy metro rail (subway/elevated rapid transit with longer trains), or the interval=* (frequency) of the route might be enough, but this is less important for passengers. --Jeisenbe (talk) 04:51, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- The excellent Alon Levy article does a fine job of explaining the complexity of rail in these "middle-light-weight" (I just made that up) categories. Even saying that, "the 2-car Los Angeles Green Line" isn't unique either, nor does it act as a definitive example of "light metro" (San Diego Trolley is similar, but can be 2-car and is often more than 2-car, for example). I've always understood this tag to be a way to orient passengers to "rail service classes" in a hierarchy of cascading importance (in their values from international "down to" local). A passenger might ride "suburban" rail five days a week as a commuter, take a light_rail to a dental appointment during a long lunch hour or with the family to the beach, take a regional train to a political rally at the state capital city and perhaps take a national or internationl train on a long and leisurly vacation knowing there will be overnight (sleeper) accomodations available. These are admittedly rough, but I do believe the tagging values can be flexible for different countries. While I am familiar with rail in the USA, it is similar in Canada to a certain extent, (and Mexico less so, though the gauge is the often the same and services in cities are similar to other world cities) so a "North American" sphere for these tag values seems to encompass them well, in my opinion. I continue to believe that this tag works well with the four types of rail Levy describes as light rail, at least in the USA and North America. I do welcome further discussion on this tagging. Stevea (talk) 07:28, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- It sounds like you would use passenger=urban for all kinds of railway=light_rail, then? In that case it can just be an implied tag, and doesn't need to be added. Similarly, probably no need to tag railway=subway either. Most features with these tags are railway=rail where there is more ambiguity. --11:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)