Talk:Tag:tomb=obelisk

Examples appear to be grave monuments, not tombs

In the common English language definition, a tomb is a structure, sometimes underground, which contains the remains of a deceased person. The two example pictures on this page seem to show obelisk gravestones, which are monuments erected on top of a grave, or in front of a grave. The difference between a grave and a tomb is that a grave is dug into the ground, and the deceased person's remains are lowered in, often inside of a coffin, while the tomb is built structure. See https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tomb "a large stone structure or underground room where someone, especially an important person, is buried" --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:46, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

They are obelisks built on a grave, similar to a tomb=pillar (a type of tomb). These obelisks don't correspond to the definition of a pillar tomb. Pillar tombs are pillars or columns, they do not include obelisks. These obelisks are not pillar tombs.

Certainly they are grave monuments (or monumental gravestones). However they are not memorials (historic=memorial + memorial=obelisk or historic=monument). A tomb can be understood as a type of memorial, but in OSM we differentiate between historic=tomb and historic=memorial. These obelisks are not memorials.

A solution could be to tag these types of grave monuments as historic=tomb + tomb=obelisk, following the same tagging scheme for a pillar tomb, i.e., consider these obelisks as a type of tomb. --Dcapillae (talk) 10:22, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

P.S.: Alternatively, we could use a more generic tag including all the grave monuments (obelisks, scuptures, statues, etc.) that do not correspond to any of the existing types of funerary structures (mausoleums, table tombs, burial vault, etc.). For example, "historic=tomb" + "tomb=monument" (generic and different to historic=monument). In this way we could map grave monuments, including these obelisks, as historic=tomb and not as historic=memorial. These monuments are tombs, not memorials. --Dcapillae (talk) 12:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting using historic=monument but rather cemetery=grave which is fairly common. It's an odd tag ("cemetery" is an unusually key to have chosen), but it appears to be the main way to tag a grave, which is often marked by a gravestone or grave monument in some cultures. In English language there is a fairly clear distinction between a "tomb" and a "grave", as mentioned above, and this distinction also exists in many other cultures - though it seems to be less clear in Spanish: https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=es&text=grave%2C%20tomb&op=translate (both "grave" and "tomb" are commonly translated as "tumba") --Jeisenbe (talk) 03:59, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

We are discussing the use of this and other tags on the mailing list (thread). I will probably change/remove this tag page based on that discussion. I use cemetery=grave as well if there is a grave. I was looking for a tag to indicate this type of grave monument.

In Spanish, "tumba" is used to refer to both "grave" and "tomb", although the word "tumba" also refers to the work built on the grave. In Spanish there is the word "sepultura", which is used to indicate exclusively the grave (place where a body is buried). --Dcapillae (talk) 11:12, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps a new tag set of tags under tombstone=* or grave_monument=*, e.g. tombstone=obelisk or grave_monument=obelisk? --Jeisenbe (talk) 21:31, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

This is a great idea. Perhaps it's the best solution. I imagine that grave monuments in cemeteries are not as visited as monuments and memorials in other public spaces. Perhaps that is why a specific tagging has not yet been developed for this type of monument. Mapping them as memorials does not convince me, and leaving them simply as graves, either.

On the mailing list I have suggested removing tomb=obelisk, tomb=pillar, and tomb=cenotaph and mapping these monuments as memorials. Certainly do not correspond well with the meaning of "tomb" and mapping them as memorials seems more of a compromise. Specific tagging would be better. --Dcapillae (talk) 22:17, 3 December 2020 (UTC)